[B+] Canus Unum

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Mr_Poppykins
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[B+] Canus Unum

Post by Mr_Poppykins » Thu Feb 07, 2008 7:00 pm

Canus Unum
Blackened Sage of Shade
Melee Intelligence, Order
Orc Shaman model

Once again, good guy, dark powers. MARVEL AT THE SIGHT! MARVEL I SAY!

Level 1 skill - Black Hole Sun
    Active: Canus creates a ward-like summon at target location. Every few seconds, enemies within X range of it are blinded for Y seconds. If Canus is within 500/550/600/650/700 range of the summon he becomes invisible. If Canus is within 300/275/250/225/200 range of the summon he is visible again.

    Lasts Z seconds.

Level 1 skill - Flux
    Active – Over a few seconds, a ring of darkness forms a ways out from where Canus was standing when the spell was cast. After it is fully formed it closes in on itself. Enemies touched by the ring as it closes take X damage and are maimed for Y seconds.

Level 1 skill - Malady
    Active/Passive – While active, when Canus attacks an enemy below X% health, he has a Y% chance of inflicting a random condition for Z seconds. If the enemy is blind or maimed this chance doubles.

Level 6 Ultimate - Penumbra
    Active – Canus calls down a beam of darkness. The beam will touch down on the nearest Black Hole Sun. If none are present it will touch down on Canus. The beam will actively seek out any Black Hole Suns. If there are none it will follow Canus around. Enemies in the beam take X damage/second and their blind and maim status extends for Y seconds/second. Penumbra will destroy Black Hole Suns it touches.

    Lasts Z seconds.

Poppy Pro Tips:

The more I thought about the invisibility on BHS, the more I liked it. It took some thought too; I had to yell at myself for an earlier version which was practically a Sandstorm clone.

Flux forms at the point where Canus is standing, but stays stationary(doesn't follow him if he moves). I'd figure it would have something like a 300-400 diameter. However, it may be a bit too similar to Schism.

The idea with Penumbra is a bit of flexibility, with room for creative use. Yes you could just activate it and chase someone, or you could lay paths for it to travel.

The theme I was going for is to trap and trick enemies into going where you want them to, or to shoo them away from combat altogether. Like if they don't feel like fighting you while you're invisible, they can bait Canus to the BHS to see him but then get blinded for it.

Thanks to ShadowRain for his (better) version of Malady.

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Last edited by Mr_Poppykins on Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:50 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by VZShadowRain » Sun Feb 10, 2008 1:06 pm

Actually, I really like parts of this hero Poppy.

Black Hold Sun: I read it once and thought, hmmmmm. I read it again and thought, wowwwwww. I like the strategy that this demands ans well as the possibilities. How long were you thinking it should last and how many hit points were you thinking it should have? I like how unique it is and how it really is simple, but demands strategy and skill. I have very little to bash about this.

Flux: Meh. Seems gimmicky. I can't really picture it and from what I can, it just seems really unnecessary. I think it should be a quick delayed nuke like Dahaka's in AotZ, and you should just get rid of the whole fully formed and closing on itself business.

Malady: Get rid of the whole attacking faster business. I really think that entire concept is completely useless and the speed of a hero should be determined by his natural stats. I also think it's completely unnecessary for the concept of the skill. What I DO think should change is the mechanics of it, though. Make it really worth getting at first level, because this could be great fun and really evil. Have the primary factor be their hit point threshold. For instance - "If Canus attacks an enemy that is below 50/60/70/80/90% max health, then he has a 10/17.5/25/32.5/40% chance to inflict a random condition on that enemy for 2/2/3/3/4 seconds. This percentage is doubled if that unit is suffering from Maim or Blind." I really like the idea and I think you could make it into an incredible skill.

Penumbra: So, I think this is cool, but it could be different from what I'm thinking. Is this beam coming from above and covering like a 200 radius area? That would be really interesting. Or is it something completely different? This skill could use a bit more description I think before I can pass firm judgment on it.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by Mr_Poppykins » Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:09 pm

First I'd like to thank you for your very useful and in-depth criticism. Now to answer your questions.

Okay, hitpoints on BHS, I'll throw out a number here. Something like 100-125. That's enough to survive 1 attack from most bane heros at max level. This would increase the chance of them suffering the blind if they decide to attack it, but still if they're timing is good enough they could get the second attack to kill it in time. Or they could use a spell to kill it if they really felt the need. Now for time. I'm not as ready to give numbers for this, but the relation between summon length and cooldown would be such that a little bit before the first one expires, you could plant another. Sort of like Extinction, but I wouldn't picture them lasting as long as those do.

Flux actually is basically the quick delayed nuke you're thinking of. Where Timeshatter takes a few seconds before it "detonates", that would be akin to Flux "forming". Then the closing in would be damage in the AoE. I was just going for a new visual effect on a familiar idea. Timeshatter and Schism both have vertical visuals to them, Flux would be horizontal. It's also unique to those ideas in that it's planted where he's standing, instead of being able to cast it from a distance. The description may have made it seem a little weird, but this should clear it up for anyone else who reads this as well.

I do like your idea on Malady, and it's very possible that I'll use it. It'd probably be just a passive skill then. Is that what you were thinking as well?

Yes Penumbra is a beam descending down from the sky and covering a circular area. Umm, I don't know what else to add.

And thanks again, SR.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by Deschain » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:34 pm

One of the best heroes I've seen so far.

I agree Black Hole Sun is an amazing skill and with Penumbra it really sounds like a fun hero (only possible problem could be noob Stille blasting your summons).

Flux: I understand it is an OK ability. Fits with the theme of melee hero. The only problem is where does the Flux form? As I think Canus stands on one of its sides? Or it forms around him?

Malady: I agree with Shadow Rain. It would be useless on lvl 1 without the two previous skills. Instead you should go for a passive like the one Shadow Rain suggested that worked no matter the skill choice.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by dmaargke » Sun Feb 10, 2008 8:47 pm

Overall, I like it.

The timing thing on BHS is my biggest gripe. If your ult is supposed to follow a path built by them but you can only put down 1 or 2 at a time it kind of removes that entire mechanic.

I also agree with SR on Malady. However I don't agree that it should be a passive. An active passive would be fine based on how strong the ability would be. Constant random conditions when they are below 90% health? I know that you could adjust the % of activation to make it not imba, but IMO it would be more fun to have a nice high percent to play with conditions at the cost of mana.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by VZShadowRain » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:17 pm

I just threw out some numbers, but yeah, active passive would be the way to go.

And dmaargke, why do you think the beam travels between the BHSes? He means the the beam will come down on a BHS or, if there isn't one, it will come down on him. The useful part of that is if an enemy hero feels like attacking the BHS ward, then you can activate the ulti in your base and rape him.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by Mr_Poppykins » Sun Feb 10, 2008 9:53 pm

Okay, Flux is still a bit confusing it seems. I'll do my best to clear it up.

When the spell is cast Canus becomes the very center of the circle.
/ \
| C |
\ /
C being where Canus was standing when the spell was cast. If he moves the circle won't follow him, so I picture it.

I also edited Malady to be SR's version of it, minus any hard numbers.

Also, when I first thought of Penumbra I pictured it touching down where Canus was, THEN seeking out any BHS's that are around. The way you pictured it is pretty cool too though, SR.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by Steve » Sun Feb 10, 2008 10:12 pm

Flux was pretty easy to understand for me. Basically a circle expanding where Canus Unum was standing when he cast it, and if he moves after he casts Flux then it doesn't change.

I really like this hero! A lot!
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by Deschain » Mon Feb 11, 2008 4:49 pm

VZShadowRain wrote:He means the the beam will come down on a BHS or, if there isn't one, it will come down on him.

But if you have two BHS which one will it target? First chronologically or spatially? My guess would be spatially if it would work that way.

I thought also it starts from Canus and goes to nearest BHS.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by VZShadowRain » Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:46 am

Oh meh, maybe I interpreted it wrong. But that doesn't stop me from liking this version of the hero a lot more.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by dmaargke » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:35 pm

I really like this guy.
I'm still not sure who was interpreting Canus correctly but it really doesn't matter. I like the vers of Canus that starts at the nearest sun and bounces around between them for a while raping everything in it's path.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by Mr_Poppykins » Tue Feb 12, 2008 6:45 pm

I edited Penumbra to be the version that seems more popular.

With this change I'd say that Black Hole Sun(s) wouldn't last quite as long, but be a bit more spammable.

I also tweaked the range of the invisibility, since I realized 800 is pretty far. Not that it really matters since numbers are something that can be avoided completely in hero suggestions.
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Re: Canus Unum (with fail reduced![I promise])

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:19 pm

Review:
  • General Pros:
    - Uh, this hero owns dude.
    Black hole sun is easily one of the coolest applications of invisibility I've seen in awhile. It's so brilliant, a ward that gives invisibility. So easily countered, but so valuable to the way you've set up the hero. It'd be spammy so you could keep it up quite a bit.
    - Flux is a cool skill
    Yeah, it requires some good timing and use to get to work. Really simple concept, really cool interaction, I like it.
  • General Cons:
    - Black Hole Sun
    Well, it's a freakin' awesome skill, but that whole "Can't be within X from ward" has conflicts. What if two wards are within range of one another and you're in the invis-zone of one but the not-invis-zone of the other? How should the game respond to this situation? The obvious fix is to make the skill more useful and not have a not-invis-zone at all. I think that would work.
    - Penumbra
    It's got some flexibility, but you can't really control which BHS it goes after, just the closest one. And since you don't want to unsummon your own BHS just to move the beam around (You'd lose invis!), it is a bit counterproductive. It also forces players to get BHS to really be useful. What if I wanted a build that was Flux and Malady? By making the ultimate like you have, you've basically said "No, that build is impossible," thus limiting player interaction heavily. This could be fixed though, and relatively easily too.
  • Final Thoughts:
    This hero is pretty freakin' awesome, Poppy. I absolutely hate the shaman model for a hero, but aside from that and not being able to think of another, better model, it's really cool and has lots of potential for fun condition interaction. I dig it.
  • End Grade:
    B+
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