Official Writing Mechanics Questions

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Kaome Sky Deathand
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by Kaome Sky Deathand » Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:58 am

Then 'Void' isn't what you're looking for...
You're looking for 'The Source' something to describe a place that gives to all.
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by TheIrishPatriot » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:05 pm

I'm going to have to argue. It's only the source for magic, not for life in general. And voidlings and void-parasites sound better then sourcelings and source-parasites.
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by Hell_Tempest » Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:06 pm

TheIrishPatriot wrote:I'm going to have to argue. It's only the source for magic, not for life in general. And voidlings and void-parasites sound better then sourcelings and source-parasites.
Sourceling and source-parasites actually sound better, IMO.
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by Kaome Sky Deathand » Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:24 pm

I didn't mean literal...
Think outside the box when it comes to the actual name.
Hence the ' ' ' ' around the word.

Void being an absence of something (In my case 'time')
Source being the area in which something has come from (in your case magic)

Theres no reason to get snippy about it.
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by vesuvan » Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:39 pm

I'm having a bit of trouble deciding how people, villages, cities, or even nations would react to an ecological disaster that destroys their means of life support.

The setting I have in mind is one where the sky darkens due to a strange mineral clouding the skies. This new atmosphere filters most of the sunlight that plants would use for nourishment into very harmful radiation. The temperature is increased, and the precipitation cycle is greatly accelerated. I approximate the crops would last three weeks, tops, then the fungi would take over the rotting fuana. At this point I would guess that a vast number of animals would become extinct.

My question is how long a small village, city, or nation could survive, and how long it would take for anarchy to take hold. I would imagine raider bands would develop very quickly out of survivors to raid smaller settlements. The only kind of government I would see lasting would be a very violent and dogmatic one that would scour the land for any life support it had left.

Assume that the technology of this setting is lightly lower than that of the middle ages in most subjects, but at the same time some civilizations posses eighteen-hundreds level medicine and chemistry.

I need help with this information based on the continuity of when certain factions would fall, and give rise to others. Among those would be agricultural centers, small hunter-gatherer tribes, large monarchies, and nomads.

edit: They didn't have internet in the middle ages :/
Last edited by vesuvan on Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by Steve » Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:47 pm

WHat you seem to be talking about is slightly similar to nuclear winter except it doesn't block sunshine (fully).Well, a really dark world would still have internal lightning, right? They could live in buildings, but solar power = fail. Also, the larger amount of rain could possibly interfere with Internet (happened to me once, got into local Comcast's boxes). Anarchy would probably take hold fast, since a large portion of animals will die out, but it depends which die out. I'm having trouble articulating myself properly right now, though, need to eat. I'll edit this more later.
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by Deschain » Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:21 am

As said. The setting can be approximated with effects of nuclear winter.

Agricultural centers would fall first. Since they would be the first effected by lack of light. Those with enough hindsight would stock up seeing the bad weather. The prices of agricultural products and live stock would rise overnight making the poor peasants with enough stock the wealthiest men in town. However with little protection they would soon become victims of theft or murders. As people start to get more hungry the things would turn more and more desperate...

Carnivore predators animals (like wolf) would expand their territories in search for food. Times would probably be hard for them too... Some predators could turn to scavenging their fallen. As their territories expand the predators would eventually cross path with humans and find them and their livestock a dangerous but worthy meal (desperate measures require desperate actions).

Hunter-Gatherer. Gatherers would be stricken as soon as the plants they harvest die out. They would start experimenting with all kinds of different plants leading to death (balance this with amount of desperation it takes). Once plants die out the herbivore supported by them will die out and carnivore and omnivores with nothing to eat will shift their appetites. Thus hunters would be stricken heavily only a few days or weeks after the gatherers. This would lead to similar effects like the one with agricultural centers except the shift of power might be mitigated by social structure.

Monarchy would probably due to social inertia and power be able to sustain themselves for a decent amount of time. Once they lose control of food providers it would devolve into chaos.

Thinking about it, social aspects could mitigate or dampen the social effects of a such cataclysm but mostly for a limited amount of time. Only if a society finds plausible and stable means of support, it could become a functional community (like using some surviving plant to fund themselves, traiding... raiding is a plausible but unstable means of support IMO).
This isn't best summary of effect but these are all I can think of right now.

Nobody knows how much food is important until there is none to eat. Just see what important resource would go scarce with light and see how will it affect the societies...
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by Hell_Tempest » Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:24 pm

People (might) start cultivating Fungi as a source of food, and build artificial farms with artificial lighting for things like cows and other cattle.

I've seen books that have those kinds of things (more or less) and they were epic WIN.
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by vesuvan » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:50 pm

Thank you very much deschain, that's a lot of information I didn't know.

I was planning on having various raider factions that very quickly wiped out most of the smaller villages. One monarchy has survived by tithing and conquest. The main conflict of the story is between the former, and a civilization that used to be known for it's advanced medicine, which is using it's knowledge to gather blight for cultivating biodegrading organisms for food.

The last bit of information I'm not sure about on this subject is how long the most stalwart of organizations would survive. I plan on natural selection creating a new type of sedentary organism that can feed off the radiation of this new climate eventually. My goal is to wipe out 90% of the world's human and animal population. Notable factors are the sudden lack of resources, the amount of desperate bloodshed between factions, and that the sunlight of this setting is actually deadly to most organisms.

So would this happen in a few months, a year, or maybe longer? I'm hopelessly ignorant when it comes to sociology and ecology.
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by Deschain » Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:47 pm

vesuvan wrote:Thank you very much deschain, that's a lot of information I didn't know.

I was planning on having various raider factions that very quickly wiped out most of the smaller villages. One monarchy has survived by tithing and conquest. The main conflict of the story is between the former, and a civilization that used to be known for it's advanced medicine, which is using it's knowledge to gather blight for cultivating biodegrading organisms for food.

The last bit of information I'm not sure about on this subject is how long the most stalwart of organizations would survive. I plan on natural selection creating a new type of sedentary organism that can feed off the radiation of this new climate eventually. My goal is to wipe out 90% of the world's human and animal population. Notable factors are the sudden lack of resources, the amount of desperate bloodshed between factions, and that the sunlight of this setting is actually deadly to most organisms.

So would this happen in a few months, a year, or maybe longer? I'm hopelessly ignorant when it comes to sociology and ecology.
Just don't take anything I say at face value. It is my prediction and if you find it unlikely in your setting don't use it.

I must say I like your setting quite a bit... Personally my favorite is that food will be worth more than gold and turning traditional society upside down (people with gold <<< people with food) .

Okay. The time need it for society to degrade depends on level on information censure and military enforcement. If high information control is enforced people will see the darken sky while plants and people dying and panic will ensue (takes a few days for them to put two and two together and three weeks for them to start full scale panic) then it depends on level of dogma (priest saying it is a punishment of gods) and level of enforcements (military curfew etc.).

Dogma could keep them calm a week or month before they start starving and turning on the priests. Military could keep the plain people calm as long as their morale is good, provisions are stable and they can take on a superior in numbers but less trained opponent.
NOTE: Killing their neighbors (and such) is bad for morale, elite dogmatic warriors and mercenary (working for food) are best protection.
On the other hand mercenary might decide they want more power which means they would help the rioters or just stay neutral.
If the society gains a steady means of supporting (raiding could help but only short term) before all hell breaks loose they could survive the cataclysm.
NOTE 2: Bands, raiders and beasts negatively influence military and I haven't calculated them.

Raiding bands are unstable due to people treacherous nature (backstabbing is the quickest way of profit), though they might form some form of union if a threat of a greater enemy emerges (soldiers or some super organized group). If such union is given a strict code of conduct it could become some form of organized crime.

Also in my opinion there will be a shortage of men. War, riots, raids and man having only one X chromosome (makes the more susceptible to radiation) will make them a valued "resource" ;) as well. It could be possible that a colonies of only women exist that prize men above anything else...
NOTE 3: Plants and animals with backup chromosomes (2 or more) will be much more endurable to radiation. Some predatory animals may turn scavenger.
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by Kaome Sky Deathand » Mon Mar 31, 2008 11:14 am

Throw in some tailspins for good measure or foci points.
Such as:

Maybe a Bio-Dome or other 'enclosed' operation that the rad had no effect on.
People in the dome would be thriving...maybe they would share...or maybe they would cruelly keep the lock on and watch the others (outsiders) die.

A Bomb shelter filled with XX number of people.
Good supplies, but curious...perhaps naive.

People on the Space Station or in orbit.
What would they do, seeing the world in flames beneath them?

Fun ideas that give you unlimited options to start with.
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simultaneously the source of our greatest strength, and our greatest weakness.

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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by vesuvan » Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:22 pm

Oh yes kaome, all good concepts. The main conflict of the story is between two factions. The first is a powerful but opressive monarchy that has no stable means of survival. The second is a confederacy of former raiders, survivers of tiny villages, and a civilization known for it's medical knowledge which has found a means of survival.

The ones with the fountain of life wish to literally allow any trace of the old social systems that they deem unjust to die so they may usher in a new era of socratic society, even if they must frigidly discount the deaths of their enemies as the price of progress.

The rulers of the empire will not give up their position, and will order every last soldier they control to their deaths before submitting to any others for survival. If they could conquer their enemies, they would be able to survive as the last empire of the world, and their rulers would have unlimited power.

In this setting, the new minerals found in the incessant rain of this new atmosphere gave the people the ability to create artificial life. These golems are non sentient, and have very short life spans. They do however, have no need for organic food, are easy to control, and after the cataclysm, are used as weapons of war that are immune to the lethal sunrays of the new world.

What nobody counted on was that the synthetics could gain the ability to reproduce from the flesh of a living being that they consumed. When millions of people died, the synthetics they went feral, and evolved a bloodlust for humanity.

Now the survivers have more to worry about than deprivation, bloodbaths, and a climate that few even have the suitable shelter to survive, they have to worry about predaters that never sleep, can move anywhere, will not starve, will not tire, and have an immutable instinct to kill.
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by Deschain » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:33 pm

vesuvan wrote:Oh yes kaome, all good concepts. The main conflict of the story is between two factions. The first is a powerful but opressive monarchy that has no stable means of survival. The second is a confederacy of former raiders, survivers of tiny villages, and a civilization known for it's medical knowledge which has found a means of survival.

The rulers of the empire will not give up their position, and will order every last soldier they control to their deaths before submitting to any others for survival. If they could conquer their enemies, they would be able to survive as the last empire of the world, and their rulers would have unlimited power.

What nobody counted on was that the synthetics could gain the ability to reproduce from the flesh of a living being that they consumed. When millions of people died, the synthetics they went feral, and evolved a bloodlust for humanity.

Now the survivers have more to worry about than deprivation, bloodbaths, and a climate that few even have the suitable shelter to survive, they have to worry about predaters that never sleep, can move anywhere, will not starve, will not tire, and have an immutable instinct to kill.
Wait Kaome suggestions are Science Fiction, right? Yours is more like medieval fiction.

Wouldn't the oppresive monarchy had to fund their soldiers or golem controlers? The fountain of life group is their existence known to the other two faction or are they the part of the second faction? Third mysterious faction working in the darkness is awesome.

What I love with these setting is them being giant sandboxes :D So many options. Golems are cool though.

Now I need help. Medieval setting. All of a sudden the world explodes in a magic sense. A thousand portals too unknown worlds open, things try to crawl through them. Most of those things die when crossing the portals, some survive horribly disfigured (often empowered and enraged by their wounds), while some of them probe with caution.

Regular people get insane powers but their powers seem to trigger opening more andmore portals and change storms. Their planet is litterally torn into shreds by portals and change storms (if you pass through a change storm there is a nice chance of something wtf happening; like your face decides it looks much better with few more eyes, few more tentacles and a chicken head instead of a nose).

My questions:
What do you think of this setting?
What would you do if you were in such setting?
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by The Colonel » Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:46 am

vesuvan wrote:will not starve, will not tire,
This part really bugs me. It's physically impossible for them to run off of nothing indefinitely, as you describe. >:(
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Re: Official Writing Mechanics Questions

Post by TheIrishPatriot » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:55 am

Vesu, I've only skimmed all of the suggestions, and your own info, but here's an idea:
When it all begins, there's probably a group(s) who deny that the sudden change is anything big. "It'll go away in a week, nothing serious." "Oh, well, you know, we get these every summer, but this one is just bigger. Funny, the way our world works." They should be quite ready to lie openly, because if people start realizing that they're screwed, they'll desert them. Thus, it could be a political group. Or a (real, even) religious group, or several, who don't want to lose followers very fast. And I assume there is a group who assumes this is the apocalypse :D.

Edit: Is anybody here knowledgable about plagues/epidemics? I have one...sort of two...in my story, and I want to know how fast it would spread (+details).

Edit 2: Wow. The Wrath, the Plague, the Pain. We're a happy crowd.
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