Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

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Phox
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Phox » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:32 pm

TheIrishPatriot wrote:I think the model should be the shade from the Undead, the scout thing. I think it's definitely a cool hero, but I really dislike the ultimate. It's epic and cool and all, but it's basically an Ultimate Storm Bolt.

A shade... doesn't really capture any sort of awesome. I think we need a custom model, tbh...

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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:33 pm

I was saying the same thing, Phox.
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Sabertooth » Sat Nov 01, 2008 6:49 pm

Revenant could be pretty awesome, though it may lack animations.

I liked the hero beforehand though, waiting on changes.

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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Phox » Sat Nov 01, 2008 7:00 pm

Sabertooth wrote:Revenant could be pretty awesome, though it may lack animations.

I liked the hero beforehand though, waiting on changes.

Imho, Voidwalker > Revenant

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Kaome Sky Deathand
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Kaome Sky Deathand » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:30 pm

Sorry...Hosting my Halloween Party tonight.
I'll get on this ASAP in the mornin.....hmm...better wait on that...
The next afternoon.

Thanks for your input.
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by TheIrishPatriot » Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:10 pm

Rising_Dusk wrote:
TheIrishPatriot wrote:but it's basically an Ultimate Storm Bolt.

That really doesn't make it any less awesome. Besides, with how infrequent ultimates are used, they're allowed to be totally imbalanced. That's sort of the point.

Ok :P. I will accept your word, as you're the mapmaker and all. Sounds good :D
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Kaome Sky Deathand
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Kaome Sky Deathand » Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:16 pm

Updated 11/02/08

- Renamed 'Echoing Doubt' to 'Echoing Eulalie'
- Changed out 'Catastrophes Choir' for 'The Lost Sonata'

~ Thoughts?
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by VZManticoran » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:20 pm

Echo seems slightly... Well, I can't say how important movement will be in AotZ 3.00, but if it's anything like AotZ earlier versions or DoE, unless the movement speed minus is HUGE, it seems fairly... Well, not very good.
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by pandamanar » Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:21 pm

personally, I don't like the Hero. I mean... hes got some physical amplification, some magical reduction... a spreading debuff... a skill that we don't even know what it does exactly... and a super storm bolt wtf rape skill. I just don't see much synergy... or fun. This hero has "epic" written all over it, but behind that, I don't really see much else. Good luck on him.
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Daryll-The-Damned » Mon Nov 03, 2008 12:41 pm

I really think people are too hung up over this "Omg, his ulti is a stormbolt, it's uber" thing. The entire point of 3.00 was to remodel Aotz into an almost entirely new playstyle.

3.00, does not = 2.00. Dusk has told us this several times, and people still don't seem to understand. Just because something is overpowered or "skillless" in 2.00 doesn't mean the same criteria apply to 3.00. For all we know, Hollow's ultimate could very well be the least overpowered of them all. I mean seriously, KD's ulti can cause enough dmg to end the game!

My point being, that people simply cannot judge this to be unfun or overpowered because we do not know how the balance of power in 3.00 works, nor do we know pretty much anything of the basic mechanics of 3.00. So just chill out and enjoy Kaome's epic taste of 3.00, seriously.
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by T.s.e-kun » Mon Nov 03, 2008 2:21 pm

I picture myself a custom-skinned Spirit Wyvern.
¡Yo voy a hacer picadillo!

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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Pigger » Mon Nov 03, 2008 6:12 pm

I have mixed feelings on this hero. I love the hands off, I hate the idea of wholly support (or almost nearly so). I can't fully go into detail as is obvious with the Elite ability, but other than that I'll toss my pennies out.

I feel that, though the support theme is there, a more focused theme could be used. Not specifically as I originally thought of as "Support towards the specific goal of death" but possibly a more specific form of support instead of how well rounded he is with: +Damage vs Enemies, -Damage to Allies, and -Speed to Enemies. As'll be seen with my comments I'm thinking maybe a specific goal should be put in mind, like...good at siege aiding, good at defending allies, good at buffing for small battles, good at specific buffs or whole army buffs, I don't know, things like that.


Doom Reverb - As with Grayl (Whom I've very little experience) I like the idea of having an ability to replace the attack, as long as its practical. In this case I enjoy how passive the damage dealing is. Its a very specific damage based on how a battle goes though, so I see the need for the other abilities to require aid to allies or hindrance to enemies, as they are needed wholly for Doom Reverb to work.

What if it were to work the opposite way? When it takes damage nearby enemies recieve X%? Or When it dies enemies nearby take X damage? With all the abilities of this hero (Minus the ultimate) aiding or hindering units in groups, having his sole way of dealing damage merely affect a single unit seems contradictory. I personally would prefer his damage to be AoE as that seems more supporting that taking down a single target.

Second Thoughts: What if perhaps, Doom Reverb was kept as is with its single target damage, yet had a spreading effect much like Eulalie, where it either spreads to all units in a small AoE, or spreads to any unit below X% health? Thus killing weaker units faster and causing Eulalie to spread faster (Which also may link into my ideas on Eulalie if I write them)


Icon of Dominance - Extremely basic support skill, I'm not sure if I like it or not. It feels almost too basic, moreso than his innate, which I feel should, if there to be one, be the most basic portion of the hero. Its exact aid to allies and harm to enemies seems best used in large scale battles, although more specifics would be needed, whether it be a small AoE, huge boost, and low cooldown; or large AoE, medium boost, and larger cooldown. Also, it would be nice to know if it could stack upon itself, thus bringing more into the use of it rather than plant and walk away.

Some thoughts as regarding it with Hollow's other skills; very effective with the innate and Eulalie, being able to cause catastrophe seems amazing, especially where the sole target suffers the most the quickest, I suppose I never thought of him as support to a swift finish, silly me. I feel it is complete in its own way, as basic as may be, no further comments really.


The Lost Sonata - Least favorite skill. As much as I enjoy the idea of defending allies, I feel this skill needs something else for a few reasons; I don't know this character's standing, how evil he is, how he thinks, I realize the Bane is not pure evil, but I wish to know where exactly magical defense stands in his head. Its a strange skill as well, magic damage is (roughly) half of the damage being dealt, so I guess this skill would be very helpful if X was of considerable amount, but that is up to debate. If X is large then it would seem as though this skill should be on for every major fire fight, cooldown also requires a part of this, as there are no (if I remember?) mana costing basic spells/abilities. Essentially he gives up mana buildup to half-save his allies (not so blunt but I hope thats what it is).

I guess I only feel it worth it if X is extremely high. Defense is nice at that large (I assume no mana gain = large sacrifice) but I almost don't feel as if this hero needs any major defensive abilities.


Echoing Eulalie
- By far my most favored skill, and I see how it mixes well with Hollow's innate, but I still have mixed thoughts. I really, really enjoy the thought of a rampant spell. Chaotic yet predictable in its spread. I also believe that its movement reduction is all that's needed for the spell (as do you :O). Overall I feel it to be the most complete spell, where my only idea would be as to have it a build up spell:

As Jhita's ability (the name is not coming to me) in DoE has its capability for massive build up damage, I believe this should as well. I realize I do not know the idea for how large X would be, but I feel that it would seem much better in terms of in play and lore-ish idea of a song-slinger who's "Echo" reverberates back stronger and stronger as it continues (Possibly illogical...) thus causing more and more pain/anguish/crippling sensation.

...and to the blunt of what I'm saying. X remains a small-ish number, but effective, and the buff stacks until a certain % or something.


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Last Breath Before Dying
- Ah, such an amazingly imagined skill. My imagination loves it, though I'm sure we're both seperate on its exacts I feel I can see a bit of what you imagined. My comments though...
As I do not know the exacts about 3.00 (As I'm sure only Dusk and yourself are clued in on) I'm not sure how to comment. I realize how epic the ultimates are to be for 3.00, but I'm unsure as to how easily executed they should be. I guess because of this I can't comment too much on this skill, but I'll just toss in that I love it.

Ideas: As I said before I'm not sure about the two first skills (excluding his innate), so here are a few ideas I have for them as replacement rather than improvement (as stated) but because I feel that Icon is fitting for now, Sonata will be my only idea.

    Instant Cast AoE - Debuffs all units with the '' debuff. Whenever a unit with the debuff dies a counter is stacked onto all other debuffed units. When the debuff wears off all allies are healed by X for each counter and enemies are damaged for each counter. Cannot affect Hollow.

What this would give is a more destructive feel to the hero, yet retains his passive feel; and though he seems to feel very passive in theory'd playstyle, I believe this still adds to the thought required in playing him. It brings a closure to Eulalie in either form (Kao's or my own take), where with Kao's, it may take out all units causing the spread to cease, but death of the enemy is wanted right? With my take, it brings the slowest, and thus last enemy, to a painful final thrust of death, mirroring his ultimate nearly, less epic though...

Last Thoughts: Sorry for my garbled typing, I may go through again to make it less wordy. I enjoy the idea of the hero. Passive support requiring active thought, a good balance that may require tweaking to be fully birthed.

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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by LightburneR » Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:47 pm

It's Jhinta Bonez I believe.

The Lost Sonata seems a little ... well... out of place. Based on all the other skills, this hero seems to be solely made on De-Buffs. From a Damage Amplification spell and a movement speed reduction (both for enemies), I can hardly see how a Spell Reduction Aura can work.

It would be very useful, I suppose, considering there are only 2 lanes and all the heros would be stacked onto the 2 lanes, which gives every reason to keep it on forever... but it seems a little off-theme from the de-buffer setup Hollow has.

I'm not saying that there is no skill required to use this said skill, because in all honesty, it takes great timing to use it, without just leaving it on forever.

Fatal Finale isn't even that drastic at all, unless there are no heros in the lane, then yes, it is an ultimate storm bolt of sorts. We are completely forgetting that it is only 2 lanes on a 6v6 game. That means a whopping 3 heros on each lane most of the time, and if anyone has less than X% hp, I doubt they will live long, with or without an ultimate storm bolt flying to murder them. (unless they are running away.... which kinda makes it contridictary to drop such a hero in a place without allies)
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by dmaargke » Thu Nov 06, 2008 2:10 am

Very very nice hero overall. I kind of read "Echoing Eulalie" as "Echoing Eucalalie" at first and laughed outrageously for a minute.

On that note(no pun intended) I have a question on that skill. The description says the effect lasts until "a" unit recovers from the timer. Now downs that mean that you cast it on creep X, creep X dies hitting Y and Z, then creep Y dies hitting A and B. Now if creep Z's timer runs out are A and B still affected?

Minor thing but I'm just wondering.
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by VZManticoran » Thu Nov 06, 2008 4:36 pm

Yes, but probably when Y dies, Z will have the buff reapplied at it's full duration.
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