Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

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Phox
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Phox » Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:40 pm

SetaSoujirou wrote:Only. We've seen disables like that before. The hitpoint part makes it more innovative.
And more balanced. They can actually do something to escape: hurt Hollow.

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Rising_Dusk » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:55 pm

My God. I'm making this hero. The inspiration, it FLOWS! *Scribbles down notes*
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by snakehawk37 » Sat Dec 06, 2008 3:22 pm

The new spell really adds to the hero. My only suggestion is if the -ms spell also reduced attack speed so he would take less damage while using Twist of Fate, since ms isn't as important when you are trapped, but idk. Good job though.

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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by TheIrishPatriot » Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:11 am

Rising_Dusk wrote:My God. I'm making this hero. The inspiration, it FLOWS! *Scribbles down notes*
Dusk has a hero crush :P
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Read my prose please :).
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Vchip
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Vchip » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:57 am

Now dont get me wrong I absolutely adore the epic feeling that Hollow gives, but I was wondering; does anyone else not like that he can't attack? I usually like the inovativness of something like his inate, but it feels a little lackluster in comparison to Banes OTHER hero that can't attack. I know that Hollow is NOTHING like Greel, but I always enjoyed him being the only one with inate thing.

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sat Dec 27, 2008 4:20 am

Well, his replacement for attack is actually fairly cool and offers a different perspective on things. Grayl's on the other hand is a very direct slap to the face, Hollow's is very subtle. I think it wouldn't be seen as too much of a conflict.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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assassingao
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by assassingao » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:37 pm

Make Grayl's innate become a lifesteal, and make him attacks with much weaker damage.

(I don't know him lore-wise...)

On the other hand, is this hero one of the gazillion heroes that actually inspired Dusk?

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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by VZManticoran » Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:57 pm

...Grayl without his innate the way it works is like... Exuro without Wrath. It just doesn't work.
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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:46 pm

assassingao wrote:Make Grayl's innate become a lifesteal, and make him attacks with much weaker damage.
No.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by TheIrishPatriot » Fri Jan 02, 2009 2:17 pm

Hmm, going back, I love this, and I accept the ultimate, but Icon of Dominance seems sort of bland :S. That's all. Like, it's useful and all, but not that interesting.
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Kurogamon
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Kurogamon » Wed Jan 14, 2009 11:23 pm

I haz disruptive, probably-not-going-to-be-accepted ideas.

Yes, it's been two weeks, but it's still an epic hero, isn't it.

Innate: Very nice, very nice. Though wouldn't a percentage of the dying unit's health work better in balancing/strategy?

Icon: Kinda lackluster in my opinion, but solid and useful. How about having it as: When a unit deals damage, X% of that damage is added onto its attack damage OR When a unit is dealt damage, X% of that damage is added to a buff that makes him take extra damage (For clarification, say a unit gets hit for 100 damage. Assume 10% of the damage (Too weak, obviously, for creeps, but kinda strong for heroes. Have a different value for each type of unit?) is added as a percentage. This means the unit would now take 110% damage than it normally takes from physical attacks.). It would quickly become uber rigged, but a short duration could make up for it. Maybe a duration extender could also be put on it.

Fate: I have nothing to say. Brilliantly balanced. Not another trap spell with no escape. They can actually hurt Hollow to end it. However, does it block heroes from entering? It's like putting glue on yourself, activate, move into range, move back and drag hero with you. That would be AWESOME. And kinda rigged, but it's too awesome for that to matter.

Eulalie: Nice, nice, again, brilliantly balanced. Also slightly boring in my opinion too, but again, it's solid. Suggestions for extra effects would probably be ignored, but I'll try. Have the units be tethered to each other as each one is affected by it?

Last Rites: No comment. Don't know about it. However, suggestion: The corpse must be fresh.

Breath: Epic. Pure epic. Voice acting would make people cream their pants from sheer epicness. However, following Hollow's story... He grants true heroes a last boon. Maybe, if the hero this was targeted onto was running into battle, he would be rewarded with a boon of some sort? Effects up to you. Not anything like CoD4's Martyr, that would be freaking annoying. If he was not, he'd simply die. I like the taking action suggestion made earlier, it adds some interactivity. Or maybe if you put in the boon, a hero that takes more than X actions forfeits his boon?


Aah, such great lore.
Can you hear them?

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TheDeathstalker
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by TheDeathstalker » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:31 pm

Ahh Kuro, I see it now. Hrm... Well, the problem is what you're talking about is exponential growth. I hit you for 20 damage, say it's a 20% growth, I gain +4 damage against you, not bad, but let's follow this for a few hits, shall we?

20 > 24 > 28.8 > 34.56 > 41.47 > 49.77 > 59.72. That's 6 hits til you hit 300% damage. Yeah, you can just keep the timer short, or the % mundane, but you run into the problem of attack speed influencing damage in a non-uniform manner. I know this is already somewhat part of these maps (take, for example, a fast attacking DoE hero with Rikter's Damnation vs Dag with it, the change in damage per second is significant). I think a flat % is a far safer approach, if maybe not so flashy. (In case you were wondering, in the example I had, 6 attacks had it up to a net average of +75% damage, another attack takes that to +100%, and so on.)

Sometimes simplicity that achieves the same goal is better Kuro, yeah it may not be pretty, but say a +30% flat bonus damage in a non channeling AoE to all physical damage can make a huge difference, and works for both heroes and creeps.
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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Kurogamon
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Kurogamon » Fri Jan 16, 2009 3:55 pm

I suppose you're right about the mundane being a good solution, but something like AotZ with its uniqueness should have something a bit unique, no? If there's a way to balance it, we can consult other people, but I'll let it go for now.

What do you think about the others?

EDIT: And do we get an explanation of why he's on the Bane? I still say we should have heroes that can be picked by either faction.
Can you hear them?

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TheDeathstalker
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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by TheDeathstalker » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:17 pm

From what I can gather, the reason he is on bane is twofold. One, he's the Reaper, which just about assures him a spot on the badguy's team, and Two, is because he has to be on one of them, AotZ and DoE are about so much more than random heroes fighting each other, they're climactic battles in a deep and complex world, so the story plays out one way, and that way can't have a hero on a random side. Certain things are sacrificed to allow for gameplay, such as the "losing" team being able to win and heroes reviving, but I believe hero selection is rather soundly team specific.
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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Re: Hollow, The Last Breath Before Dying

Post by Loki » Fri Jan 16, 2009 5:20 pm

The thing with elementals ie Dahaka and Hollow, they don't care on which side they are on, as long the balance is kept. So if the Order decided to threaten the balance at some point, Dahaka would defect from the Order and join the Bane.
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