Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

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Kurogamon
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by Kurogamon » Sat Jan 31, 2009 11:29 am

Now it's interesting. I'll review maybe when I have time.
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Oxygen
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by Oxygen » Sat Jan 31, 2009 1:37 pm

You forget that heroes should be fun to play, I think. I don't see anything that strikes me "oh my.. I WANT to use that!" In fact, there's very little thinking and skill behind the gameplay. Stack buffs, hit. No fun~

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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by Loki » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:01 pm

Kinda reminds me of Mesmer.
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Kurogamon
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by Kurogamon » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:14 pm

Review time.

Strength of Many: This has nothing to do with strength of many. Rename or fix. Otherwise, it's a fair idea. But if the battle goes on for any amount of time, this'll get wtfrigged. Can we have some details concerning approximate AoE, whether the buff is refreshed, and if there's a difference between units and heroes struck?

Prepare to Die: Why not just give them all a lesser version of the buff? Although I see your idea in that the buffed unit, being the closest, will get guaranteed hits. Also, again, this will spiral out of control very quickly. What's the duration?

Weight of the World: It has synergy, but I don't like it. Too click-slow-damage-ish for me. Make it require some skill/prerequisites to use. The slow works well with his other abilities, which involve allies chasing. Good job, simple and succinct. Still need to fix it being too simple.

Hero's Resolve: Can't see too much being wrong with this, but it might be a bit overpowered at times. We'll see if it is or isn't.

Rebirth of Hope: First of all, what innate? You mean Strength of Many? Does it apply to towers? And also, it's kinda... Not that epic. Have the buff applied to allies and have something done when said allies die.
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SetaSoujirou
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by SetaSoujirou » Sun Feb 01, 2009 7:26 pm

Kurogamon wrote:Strength of Many: This has nothing to do with strength of many. Rename or fix. Otherwise, it's a fair idea. But if the battle goes on for any amount of time, this'll get wtfrigged. Can we have some details concerning approximate AoE, whether the buff is refreshed, and if there's a difference between units and heroes struck?
Weak argument. It doesn't need any more explanation as it currently is, and does make sense of its name.
Kurogamon wrote:Prepare to Die: Why not just give them all a lesser version of the buff? Although I see your idea in that the buffed unit, being the closest, will get guaranteed hits. Also, again, this will spiral out of control very quickly. What's the duration?
You're buffing units. Whether you utilize to be powerful or not is your choice. No one complains about powerful creeps from buffs in games that I play.
Kurogamon wrote:Weight of the World: It has synergy, but I don't like it. Too click-slow-damage-ish for me. Make it require some skill/prerequisites to use. The slow works well with his other abilities, which involve allies chasing. Good job, simple and succinct. Still need to fix it being too simple.
It does have skill and prerequisites to use. The buffs around him are prerequisites in a way. It is by no means too simple.
Kurogamon wrote:Hero's Resolve: Can't see too much being wrong with this, but it might be a bit overpowered at times. We'll see if it is or isn't.
I fail to see how it's OP, buffing units.
Kurogamon wrote:Rebirth of Hope: First of all, what innate? You mean Strength of Many? Does it apply to towers? And also, it's kinda... Not that epic. Have the buff applied to allies and have something done when said allies die.
Reduce damage and inflict it upon attacking. Makes people have to CONSIDER attacking you as an option. Seems epic to me.
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TheDeathstalker
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by TheDeathstalker » Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:47 pm

First off, thanks Kuro for reviewing the hero, and thanks Seta for replying for me. The "Innate" bit in the ult referred to Hero's Resolve, which *was* an innate, before it got the chop.

I really don't have much more to say, Seta pretty much covered everything. Btw Seta, should I take the above post to mean you like this hero? If so, I feel awesome now...

Anybody got anything they see this hero could use or a way to make him flow better? I personally like the skills right now, but I can tell there's still a good bit more it needs to go from fun to epic...
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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SetaSoujirou
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by SetaSoujirou » Tue Feb 03, 2009 7:45 pm

I do like him. I admire a tough hero concept to pull off (Buffer) done well.
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Kurogamon
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by Kurogamon » Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:57 pm

Kurogamon wrote:Review time.

Strength of Many: This has nothing to do with strength of many. Rename or fix.[<--- Wasn't being totally serious.] Otherwise, it's a fair idea. But if the battle goes on for any amount of time, this'll get wtfrigged.[<--- Stacking buffs are hazardous. Look at Dagur, his buff doesn't even stack, and he can smash heroes with a single creep wave. Creeps would become killing machines, but we'll see the numbers, I'll probably be wrong here.] Can we have some details concerning approximate AoE, whether the buff is refreshed, and if there's a difference between units and heroes struck?

Prepare to Die: Why not just give them all a lesser version of the buff? Although I see your idea in that the buffed unit, being the closest, will get guaranteed hits. Also, again, this will spiral out of control very quickly. What's the duration?[<--- The discussion is the distribution of power, not the amount. To me at least. Bad wording on my part?]

Weight of the World: It has synergy, but I don't like it. Too click-slow-damage-ish for me. Make it require some skill/prerequisites to use. The slow works well with his other abilities, which involve allies chasing. Good job, simple and succinct. Still need to fix it being too simple. [<--- I liked AotZ because it had that level of complexity and blending past lesser AoS's. I guess this is fine, I should have put it as a suggestion for complexity instead of a criticism for being too simple.]

Hero's Resolve: Can't see too much being wrong with this, but it might be a bit overpowered at times. We'll see if it is or isn't.[<--- Here it's the amount, not the fact if they're buffed.]

Rebirth of Hope: First of all, what innate? You mean Strength of Many? Does it apply to towers? And also, it's kinda... Not that epic. Have the buff applied to allies and have something done when said allies die.[<--- I don't think just having people needing to consider attacking you is epic enough for 3.00. Death's opinion?]

I'll review without being punch drunk next time maybe.
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SetaSoujirou
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by SetaSoujirou » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:35 pm

I haven't seen 3.00 ultimates, so I can't judge it.
Don't compare Dag in an AotZ hero suggestion. Completely irrelevant.
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Kurogamon
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by Kurogamon » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:47 pm

I'm comparing him as a general topic. There's creeps in AotZ, there's creeps in DoE, with similiar stats. Dagur buffs damage, and they attack enemy heroes. I see similarities.
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TheDeathstalker
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by TheDeathstalker » Tue Feb 03, 2009 11:57 pm

The difference is, Kuro, that it takes time to get the buff to the point that it's gonna wreck someone, so either they're doing something stupid, or you're doing something very smart. Yes, if a lone hero happens to be hanging too close to a serious creep wave, and you Weight of the World on them, then target them, they're probably screwed, but it's getting the creep wave up and keeping it that way that's the real trick with this hero I think. Yes, Dag's doesn't stack, but Dag's has a very different application. With Dag's you target a tower, crash it down, move on, not to mention, it buffs all the units. This... well, it's different.

Also Kuro, I probably wouldn't have kept the ult for every version of this hero if I didn't think it was epic, especially when it spills over to all your allies.
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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Kurogamon
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by Kurogamon » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:37 pm

Wait, what, it spills over to allies? I'll reconsider then. That's epic.

Mmkay, I'll take player skill into consideration for the buffs. He'll be better than Astelan at pushing. I don't know if that's a yay or not. :<
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by TheDeathstalker » Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:11 pm

Hero's Resolve
Passive
Increases the max number of stacks of buffs by X. Whenever there are Y stacks of a buff on a unit, it's duration is refreshed and the buff is applied to all allied units in Z AoE.
Heh, yeah Kuro, the spilling over is probably the biggest part of this guy, I'd say. Every one of his buffs, if used right, becomes a buff for everybody. Because of this mechanic, you can loosely justify the actual buffs/debuffs not being incredibly overpowered, but when every enemy nearby has -10 armor and takes 20 extra damage on every hit, you've really got something going.
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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Kurogamon
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by Kurogamon » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:26 pm

Resolve needs a minor bit of rewording, it now is implied that it applies to Weight of the World also, spreading that onto allies, which isn't (Shouldn't, at least) be right.

And the armor thing is the riggedness, but every hero will become a killing machine if used completely properly I guess.

Saw a trailer for that movie, EPIC FAIL. I'll be looking forward to bashing it.
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SetaSoujirou
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Re: Aethum, the Lost Hope of Humanity

Post by SetaSoujirou » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:35 pm

Kurogamon wrote:Resolve needs a minor bit of rewording, it now is implied that it applies to Weight of the World also, spreading that onto allies, which isn't (Shouldn't, at least) be right.

And the armor thing is the riggedness, but every hero will become a killing machine if used completely properly I guess.

Saw a trailer for that movie, EPIC FAIL. I'll be looking forward to bashing it.
It says reapplies buffs to all nearby units. Note that Weight of the World is a DEbuff.

From what I hear, 3.00 is meant to be crazy.

How 2 derail?
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