Cecil's AotZ: Tier List (v2.02c)

This is where all random discussion about AotZ goes. If it doesn't feel like it fits anywhere else but is still related to the map, this is the place to post it.
Cecil
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Cecil's AotZ: Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by Cecil » Tue Apr 14, 2009 3:14 am

All so far is unofficial; just jotting things down. Posts will be ignored until this list is organized. When I say "official", I meant "official" as to an accurate representation of my own opinion. Furthermore, I realize there is not yet any highly competitive AotZ scene known of.

My personal (but so far unfinised) tier list.

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The Hallowed Order

S Tier
Dins (possibly Top A Tier)

A Tier
Zhall
Ivory: If left unattended, or in combat guarded, can nullify nuke at any point in map.

B Tier
Dahaka: very great abilities all-around, but one stun can mean death. As well as Mind Control from Scamp is nearly a free kill.
Kree: one of the best--if not the best--creep CC. Health and move speed however make him an easy target.

C Tier
Chaplain: stun is a threat, but most useful as defense, due to speed/range being tell-tale. Ultra has all-purpose use, but can be stunned out of it, and costs an above-average amount of mana to use.

D Tier
Mesmer
Ronin: shines until mid-game, where he can't be so freely offensive, with hero's such as Scamp, and Greel. Highly susceptible to nukes and requires melee range for any effectiveness. Sub-par passive and active 'lotus blossum' (debate-table).
Arke: Mainly his stun places him higher than Dwarf, and possibly Ronin. His summons all also very useful if micro'd properly.
Dwarf: little to no use until late game.

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The Bane of Eternity

S Tier
Scamp

A Tier
Greel
Myriad (possibly high B, due to low hp, mana & stats all around, making him susceptible to 'ganks')

B Tier
- Kharn (possibly A Tier)
- Magoichi: Magoichi's passive is low-par, and his Level 6 is hardly useful at all. To compensate, he has okay life, okay move speed, long range and high attack. His best moves (scatter shot and overcharge) place him so highly due to the way he is able to control the field with them. Nuke is not useful due to Solana and/or back-up anti-nukers such as Chaplain/Zhall/Dahaka, and Dins at night. However, it is a great punisher.
- Janise

C Tier
- Ginther: ultra poses a threat, but is an obvious weapon. Ginther excels in hero and base defensive-support through use of BB, passive, and ultra if needed.
- Legion: begins lacking effectiveness in comparison to other heroes late-game, due to base defense being a main problem outside of sub-par 'guardian tanking'. However he can still CC well, and doubles as offensive hero support.

D Tier
Ebony
Jhita
Last edited by Cecil on Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:00 am, edited 5 times in total.
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SetaSoujirou
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Re: Cecil's AotZ Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by SetaSoujirou » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:17 am

Cecil wrote:Note: all so far is unofficial; just jotting things down. Posts will be ignored until this list is organized.

My personal (but so far unfinised) tier list.
You say it's unofficial so far, you expect your personal list to be official?
Myriad is top tier BTW.
And on a completely random note, there's a Serrathis on USEast.
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Re: Cecil's AotZ Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by Meliarune » Tue Apr 14, 2009 6:51 am

SetaSoujirou wrote:
Cecil wrote:Note: all so far is unofficial; just jotting things down. Posts will be ignored until this list is organized.

My personal (but so far unfinised) tier list.
You say it's unofficial so far, you expect your personal list to be official?
Myriad is top tier BTW.
And on a completely random note, there's a Serrathis on USEast.
...Huh?
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Re: Cecil's AotZ Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by TheDeathstalker » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:58 am

I agree with Seta here, who are you to say your list is "official"? Not to mention the fact that tier lists don't make a whole lot of sense anyways in a game like AotZ, as every hero is strong in their own right, it really comes down mostly to the team and the individuals using the heroes, as opposed to just the heroes themselves.

Oh, and because it keeps staring at me, and I've yet to use it... rawr!
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Re: Cecil's AotZ Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by vesuvan » Tue Apr 14, 2009 8:13 am

Tiers refer to a character's currently known apex of effectiveness. A tier is not a level of average power level, it is a measure of if the character's chance to win while being piloted by a person who is playing as well as demonstrated to be humanely possible.

This is why fox's tier ranking in super smash brothers melee keeps rising, it's not because fox is changing, it's because the players are becoming better at unlocking his capability.

This said, a tier list is utterly worthless without top-level play, and as far as I know, that doesn't exist yet for AotZ. Given that you do not understand what tiers are, what motivated you to spew communication diarhea? Are you acting randomly again? If so, I tipped over your onion, now you have to count to thurssday!

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Re: Cecil's AotZ Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by snakehawk37 » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:21 pm

Besides we all know AK is #1 on Hallowed. He pawns people and then goes rawr!

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Re: Cecil's AotZ Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:33 pm

This is a silly thread, and no it will never be 'official,' but it's not like it is illegal for him to post a thread about which heroes people think are the best and then why. Just remember to be nice.
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Cecil
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Re: Cecil's AotZ: Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by Cecil » Sat Jul 25, 2009 6:01 am

Update. List is more refined, but not complete & polished.

Now taking comments/explanations for list alteration.

Open discussion, fellas.
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Re: Cecil's AotZ: Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sat Jul 25, 2009 12:53 pm

I can't understand how Astelan isn't up there with Dins or how Dahaka isn't up there with them. The best team pick for Order always includes Astelan, Dins, Hanz, and Dahaka. On the Bane, the best pick always includes Kharn, Ginther, Greel, Scamp, and Janise. These are unquestionable. The capacity for a 30 kill streak with Ronin with a good player is impossible to neglect.
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Re: Cecil's AotZ: Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by Oxygen » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:13 pm

Solana is also up there, and that's without even considering fugit + precision

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Re: Cecil's AotZ: Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by vesuvan » Sat Jul 25, 2009 1:49 pm

A hero's capability is determined by how effective they are if played as well as humanely possible, using the majority of the knowledge available on how to play the hero. It is only possible to measure a hero's capability when every player involved is attempting to play the hero at it's maximum performance level. A scene of people attempting to play AotZ2 at it's highest level does not exist to my knowledge. There are only casual player groups.

A tier list is used as a tool for competitive players to increase their odds of winning by choosing heroes with more capability, or attempting to choose a hero that will have an advantage against those heroes. This list is constructed using data from testing the capability of individual heroes. Allow me to remind you that this data can only be retrieved from competitive play.

There are no tiers in AotZ. The entire premise of your topic is beyond the absurdity level that would make even a theoretical discussion completely unfounded in reason. If you want to make yourself useful, then engineer a theory of how to consistently perform well in AotZ, find others with similar goals, then share your findings. If you accrue enough human resources, it will facilitate the development of a tier list that has valuable information regarding the objective of winning the game.

The whole point is moot when we observe that a hero's effectiveness is not the desired value, that would be either the function for probability of winning against every possible bane team, of six order heroes, or vice-versa.
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Re: Cecil's AotZ: Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by Loki » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:34 pm

I don't get what you mean by "maximum performance level" What the hell makes something maximum performance level?

The point of an AoS is the teamwork, just scaling the individual value of a hero will not work.

And I'd like to see your sources for data. Proof and all that jazz.
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Re: Cecil's AotZ: Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by Cecil » Sat Jul 25, 2009 2:39 pm

Oxygen wrote:Solana is also up there, and that's without even considering fugit + precision
She's second A.
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Re: Cecil's AotZ: Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by SetaSoujirou » Sat Jul 25, 2009 3:12 pm

MYRIAD SUSCEPTIBLE TO GANKS?
Last time I checked, skeleblocking is more effective then a ton of what other heroes have, his mana is by far superior to God tier KD. Never runs out, dunno how you play him son but he's pretty god tier.

Scamp is susceptible to ganks with his low life and creep low movespeed. Meteors are inaccurate. Ignis latro is too slow therefore it is a terrible skill in high tier play. His is pretty bad if the enemy is smart because you can be force attacked even if you're allied to scamp. Creep jumping is fairly useless and only stalls. His jump/heal is nothing compared to vela's high tier body jump spell.
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Re: Cecil's AotZ: Tier List (v2.02c)

Post by 2-P » Sat Jul 25, 2009 4:09 pm

SetaSoujirou wrote:God tier KD.
The only one in God tier is Kingler.
SetaSoujirou wrote:vela's high tier body jump spell
hm?
Humans don't have the patience to wait even ten minutes for something!

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