Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

If you have a hero to suggest for future versions of DoE, place your suggestion in some readable format in this forum.
User avatar
2-P
Revenent of the Replies
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:18 am

Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by 2-P » Tue Jun 16, 2009 9:31 am

Rose
Scarlet Maiden
Agility; Order.

Story:
Already has one. =P


Before you bash me, let me explain. >.<
So I was fiddling around with a new hero, once all the abilities were finished I noticed how similar he was to Rose. At first I wanted to completely scratch the hero but I kinda liked the idea. And I didn't feel like posting it either because all I've probably gotten would have been "OMG ROSE COPY WTF U NOOB" comments.
So I decided to change the theme into...well, Rose. So sue me. >:

Also thanks to King for "helping" me with the hero! You know why. xD


Level 1 Skill:
Dividing Arrow
  • (Point Target)
    Fires a piercing arrow along a line, dealing X damage to all enemy units it hits. Splits up* into Y arrows if the target is suffering from a condition.

    *(Resetting the travel time of the arrows on split up would be cool, but ridiculous with Roses are Red)
Level 1 Skill:
Crossfire
  • (AoE Target)
    Fires volleys of arrows towards the target area, each dealing X damage and crippling struck units for Y seconds.
Level 1 Skill:
Precision Aura
  • (Passive, Aura)
    Increases the attack damage of nearby ranged units by X% and causes Rose's arrows to cause bleed for Y** seconds.

    **(slightly longer than the current duration, since Roses are Red doesn't cause bleed anymore)
Level 6 Ultimate:
Roses are Red
  • (Self Buff)
    Increases Rose's and her arrows' movement speed by X%.
    The arrows from her spells track down the nearest bleeding enemy while Roses are Red is active.
Last edited by 2-P on Thu Jun 18, 2009 3:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Humans don't have the patience to wait even ten minutes for something!

User avatar
Rising_Dusk
Chosen of the Intargweeb
Posts: 4031
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue Jun 16, 2009 1:39 pm

Why do you guys like Crossfire so much? Isn't it just because of the name? Can't you see how counterproductive a channeled skill is for a hero that is built upon moving and chasing?
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

vesuvan
Revenent of the Replies
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:29 pm

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by vesuvan » Tue Jun 16, 2009 2:26 pm

Dusk, you are committing the composition fallacy.

premise 1: red pigment is red
premise 2: The paint has red pigment in it
conclusion: the paint is red

It is very possible that a spell with a channeling component could work for a chasing hero.
͎̟͕͎̯̺͎̟͕͎̯̺ĩ̵̢͉̺̹͖͔̻̣̟̙ͦ̋̍ͤ̈́ͫ̓͐͐̅͊͒ͪͬͧͅn̢̮͈̪̤̳̏ͥ̐̍̌͊͜͟͠
̵̢͉̺̹͖͔̻̣̟̙ͦ̋̍ͤ̈́ͫ̓͐͐̅͊͒ͪͬͧͅn̢̮͈̪̤̳̏ͥ̐̍̌͊͜͟͠

User avatar
Rising_Dusk
Chosen of the Intargweeb
Posts: 4031
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue Jun 16, 2009 3:10 pm

Premise 1: Channeled skills are bad for chasing heroes.
Premise 2: Crossfire is a channeled skill.
Conclusion: Crossfire is bad for a chasing hero.
I see no logical fallacy in that.

Furthermore, the only thing people used it for was to inflict cripple, and then they stopped channeling the ability to do other, more productive things with their time - like attack.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

User avatar
2-P
Revenent of the Replies
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:18 am

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by 2-P » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:13 pm

I don't think that a channeling spell which is able to slow the enemy is so out of place for a chasing hero.

I often used to find me in a situation where I was chasing a hero with RaR active, and I wasn't sure if just attacking him would be enough to kill him. With crossfire you had the option to stop attacking him in order to catch up so you can try to hit with crossfire. If you hit, the enemy was as practically dead, if you missed he was as good as gone.
I definitely agree with you that it's not as effective as something like volley. But crossfire required some thought/skill, I personally find volley to be a very boring ability compared to crossfire.

True, giving the hero a "counterproductive" ability is the wrong way to make him more challenging to play, but it's... "at least something". The hero updates lately sure made them more and more effective, which is generally a good thing, it's just that many of them also became easier to be effective with, too easy IMHO.


Just compare me to those wanna-be SC pros that whine about how SC2 won't require any skill to play.
Humans don't have the patience to wait even ten minutes for something!

User avatar
Rising_Dusk
Chosen of the Intargweeb
Posts: 4031
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:43 pm

2-P wrote:I don't think that a channeling spell which is able to slow the enemy is so out of place for a chasing hero.
Ignoring cripple, would you rather have a channeling skill with high damage a foe or a non-channeling skill with lower damage on a chaser hero?
2-P wrote:True, giving the hero a "counterproductive" ability is the wrong way to make him more challenging to play, but it's... "at least something". The hero updates lately sure made them more and more effective, which is generally a good thing, it's just that many of them also became easier to be effective with, too easy IMHO.
I don't think she's too easy.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

User avatar
Loki
Gypsy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:16 am
Location: In a sea of paper cranes and a sky of paper planes.
Contact:

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by Loki » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:55 pm

Well, just because you think she's not easy, it doesn't mean that other people would think the same.
Let's do what comes naturally
ImageImageImageImage
I'll be waiting in Haven.

Black_Heart
Holder of the Alt-F4
Posts: 105
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 4:25 am

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by Black_Heart » Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:58 pm

On that subject, I don't think Rose is too easy either.

...Although it might just be because I suck with her.
Image Image Image Image

User avatar
TheDeathstalker
Keeper of the Keys
Posts: 476
Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 11:17 pm

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by TheDeathstalker » Tue Jun 16, 2009 5:09 pm

Is it possible to create a skill where she will blindly fire arrows in a direction, but not channel? Essentially you say "fire this way" and she'll fire for either a period of time or until you hit some stop button, but still be able to move and chase normally? (possibly not be able to fire her regular attack in place of the flurry). Would that work as a happy medium?
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

User avatar
Rising_Dusk
Chosen of the Intargweeb
Posts: 4031
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:09 pm

Loki wrote:Well, just because you think she's not easy, it doesn't mean that other people would think the same.
Duhhhhhhhhhhh.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

User avatar
Loki
Gypsy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:16 am
Location: In a sea of paper cranes and a sky of paper planes.
Contact:

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by Loki » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:10 pm

Not what I expected, but sure.
Let's do what comes naturally
ImageImageImageImage
I'll be waiting in Haven.

User avatar
2-P
Revenent of the Replies
Posts: 328
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 11:18 am

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by 2-P » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:36 pm

Ignoring cripple, would you rather have a channeling skill with high damage a foe or a non-channeling skill with lower damage on a chaser hero?
Without cripple? Non-channeling.
I don't think she's too easy.
Matter of taste of course.
What plays a major role is the comparison to the old Rose. It's not like I think that Rose is a bad hero, it's just that "she used to be cooler" feeling that I always get. If she had been the way she is now from the very beginning, I probably wouldn't have a thing to complain about her.
Humans don't have the patience to wait even ten minutes for something!

User avatar
Rising_Dusk
Chosen of the Intargweeb
Posts: 4031
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 1:50 pm
Contact:

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue Jun 16, 2009 7:00 pm

2-P wrote:Without cripple? Non-channeling.
Exactly.

I can't understand why you like Crossfire so much. It feels so off with her playstyle and I have so much more fun with her now than before. Now she doesn't have cripple, which makes her all the more reliant on mobility to chase as opposed to before.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

Cooldood
Revenent of the Replies
Posts: 338
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:50 am
Location: India

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by Cooldood » Wed Jun 17, 2009 3:34 am

I know this isnt contributing much, but I really liked the old Rose... Crossfire always seemed so cool! It might not be the best spell on her from a technical standpoint, but it gave her flavour. I never pick rose now :(
Let the music flow through your soul

Walk the road, see the sights, cos boy, you aint coming back!

User avatar
assassingao
Teh UBER Typist
Posts: 999
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:56 pm

Re: Rose, Scarlet Maiden (PP-Mix)

Post by assassingao » Wed Jun 17, 2009 6:22 am

Crossfire is awesome.

It in itself is a good spell, but it may or may not fit Rose's concept.

I like that skill, but I have no opinion concerning the fact that it fits with Rose or not.

What plays a major role is the comparison to the old Rose. It's not like I think that Rose is a bad hero, it's just that "she used to be cooler" feeling that I always get.
*hands up*


The most logical replacement to be used as crossfire is another skill. Make each of her attack fires an additional arrow randomly (or something).

I see no reason in Volley other than crowd control, which crossfire also used to have.

Post Reply

Return to “Hero Suggestions”