Abstract, Unrealistic Symmetry

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Dark_Humor
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Abstract, Unrealistic Symmetry

Post by Dark_Humor » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:01 pm

Abstract
Unrealistic Symmetry
Intelligence; Bane of Enternity

A king, a queen, both had a jester, his name was Abstract, and he was funny, quite funny indeed.
Untill one day, the jester was found, with the queen, in the same bed.
The king was mad, and had the jester executed, and burned alive
Nothing was there, but ashes and heart.
I sware, I will serve you untill end.
But, today, my jokes will lend here.
Death have thee.


Level 1 Skill:
Skill #1 Abstract Nightmare - Self & Targeted Conditions
  • "I feel the pain you feel... You will feel the pain, I feel," Abstract curses a enemy unit, and himself, dealing 50(+5/10/15/20/25*the number of conditions Abstract AND the enemy unit is already suffering from) magickal damage and giving both of them a random condition for 3/4/5/6/7 seconds, plus, the curse will last 1/2/3/4/5 seconds longer if Abstract, or the enemy is below 30/40/50/60/70% of their max HP.
Level 1 Skill:
Skill #2 Ebony Bloom - Line Damage * Conditions on self
  • "Perfect Bloom, Perfect Flower, Perfect Ebony... Perfect Dead," Abstract sends a powerful wave of darkness towards a target point, dealing 100(+20/30/40/50/60*the number of conditions Abstract is suffering from) magickal damage. This spell has a 3/4/5/6/7% chance to give Abstract, or hit enemies a random condition for 2/2/2/3/3 seconds.
Level 1 Skill:
Skill #3 "Hurt me, I'll bite back," - Passive % Chance to Curse
  • "Burn them alive! Maim them! Cover their mouths, mute them! Make them bleed! Cripple their legs, and ruin their armor! Throw sand at their eyes, blind them!," Abstract has a 1/1/1/2/2% chance to make a enemy unit who he attacks, or attacks him to suffer from a random condition for 1/2/3/4/5 seconds, but Abstract also gains a 11% chance to suffer a random condition for 3/4/5/6/7 second(s) whenever he kills a non-hero unit.
Level 6 Ultimate:
Skill #4 Consumption of Symmetry - Massive Curse to Self & Targeted Unit
  • "Laugh with me... Cry with me... Be mad with me... For, we will both be the same, we will become Symmetry," Abstract will create a bond between a target unit, which lasts 10 seconds, and for every 2 seconds, Abstract and the targeted unit will be affected with a random condition, which lasts for 2/3/4 seconds, plus, if Abstract or the targeted unit is already suffering from a condition, the bond will also deal 10/15/20 physical & magickal DPS.
I kinda imagine this hero as a CLOWN... Anyways, hero who works with conditions is fail, now tell me how rigged Abstract is.
Last edited by Dark_Humor on Tue Mar 24, 2009 9:20 pm, edited 39 times in total.
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SetaSoujirou
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Re: Oblivion, Blood Consumer

Post by SetaSoujirou » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:31 pm

Seems like a boring hero to play, just inflicting bleed. I'd use a different condition.
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Re: Oblivion, Blood Consumer

Post by Kurogamon » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:31 pm

I like it, simple but fits together, but Internal Destruction is too click-damage. Maybe a secondary activatable that does something with the bleeding? Collect blood?

Bleed's underused, but yeah, just inflicting bleed mainly is kinda boring...
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Re: Oblivion, Blood Consumer

Post by Dark_Humor » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:34 pm

Thanks for the feedback. I will try and change the hero, but I am still keeping the Bleed Condition... This hero would be a good hero against... Dare I say it... SOOOOOOOZZZZZEEEEEENNNNN!
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Re: Oblivion, Blood Consumer

Post by Kurogamon » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:34 pm

Bleed damages his mana.

What, you think he's THAT easy to kill?
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Re: Oblivion, Blood Consumer

Post by Dark_Humor » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:42 pm

What?! But in that forum game, you said that Bleeders kill Sozen... Hmm... Might of mistaken on what you said. Anyways, replaced some of the hero's spells, suggestions? Oh, and I will still call you Dear, Dear. :twisted:
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Re: Oblivion, Blood Consumer

Post by SetaSoujirou » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:39 pm

Anick is more than enough of a bleedy junky for one team.
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Re: Oblivion, Blood Consumer

Post by Kurogamon » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:48 am

Bleeder gives health degeneration, not bleed condition to Sozen if he is carrying them. It CAN kill him. The bleed CONDITION damages his mana.
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Re: Zeraph, Blood Drinker

Post by Dark_Humor » Mon Mar 16, 2009 2:06 pm

Remade, and yes, the hero does kinda remind you of Anick... Except with different spells... And... He has mana... So any feed back? :D
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Re: Zeraph, Blood Drinker

Post by TheDeathstalker » Mon Mar 16, 2009 5:47 pm

Couple big problems I see, other than being a mostly uninteresting hero...
1) Innate is worthless, as the Bleeder does about the same thing, so there's nothing interesting here. Also, it doesn't fundamentally affect his skills at all, so... fail.
2) Bloodlust + Rend = SotN, so drop both of them and try again is the only real solution I see...
3) The Ultimate has no interplay with the rest of the hero other than the innate, also the idea of "If a hit unit is suffering from a condition, his bleed lasts Z seconds longer" is illogical... why would he bleed more for hitting someone with a broken leg/arm or something? I know sometimes the condition interactions aren't perfect, but try to keep some sense going here. Oh, and Anick also has a turn into bats and teleport skill, it just doesn't deal damage.

In essence.... if you're gonna do a blood hero, run as far away as you can from a vampire type, or even a melee hero, because it's just not gonna work.
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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Re: Abstract, Unrealistic Symmetry

Post by Kurogamon » Wed Mar 18, 2009 9:17 pm

Crippling if they have bleed until they leave the area is not balanced. Extra damage or drain for bled damage would be fine.

And you know, you can make new topics...
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Re: Abstract, Unrealistic Symmetry

Post by TheDeathstalker » Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:23 am

Kurogamon wrote:And you know, you can make new topics...
Yeah...

On the hero himself... I really dislike all aspects of the third skill, first because it doesn't level (at all?), second because it's an unconditional perma-cripple if they are within 300 AoE, and third because no matter how magical you are, it just doesn't make sense to make two corpses fall out of one body.

As for the rest of the hero, I just don't like the feel. You've made a corpse consuming hero that does nothing but corpse consume... which is kinda lame, seeing as they can never actually leave an active battle site for fear of losing a means by which to act.

Something to notice with this hero is that even you have no confidence in the last three skills. You know how I know this? All three have tacked on, passive elements to them (yes, the 3rd is a passive, but my point stands). If any of the skills were solid enough as they were, you wouldn't need to go and add the passive effects. Look at the map as it stands, I don't think I know of any non-passive skills that have an "oh by the way" passive effect. If you'd like to enter some discussion as to why you thought these skills were good, or in the logic behind them, that'd be great, and if you ask around, I'm sure there's a lot of people willing to help with hero design.

I'm sure I've said these things before, and I know I'll probably have to say them again, but here are the keys to putting together a good hero:

1) Keep in mind the system. What are it's rules, what are it's complexities. Are there any interesting mechanics in this system that have:
A) Not been explored
B) Not been explored deeply in one aspect
C) Could be used to interesting effect
If you find something that fits into this, it is generally a good launching point for a hero. A hero can be done without this, but as a whole, it will have a much more muted effect with the community at large.

2) Define a goal, both for yourself and for the hero. Oftentimes these will be one in the same, for example, "I want to build a solid hero that is capable of Pushing by the use of Summonings". This serves a dual purpose. It first gives you something to look back to and remind yourself what the overall intent for this hero is, and it also defines the role of the hero. Sometimes these goal can be different, such as "I want to build a hero with only passive skills" and "I want a hero that uses a Swarm mechanic to Hero Kill", something like that.

3) Do something else. Whatever it is that you can do that will keep your mind free to mull over this idea. For me it's taking a walk with some music, I remember Dusk saying he herocrafts while working out with his bo staff. Whatever it is you need to do to let your mind do it's thing, do it.

4) Return with some fresh ideas, and jot down at least the first two or three skills. At this point you should hope to have a solid image of who and what this hero is, as well as how they will work on the battlefield. If you are having difficulty getting more than one skill, that's ok, the next step works on that, for now it's important to just get whatever ideas you have down in a written form.

5) Now comes the hard part, where you've got to do some significant thinking. The questions you should ask yourself vary based on the role and mechanic you're using, but they should be making sure that the hero is both well rounded enough to exist in more than just one way, while still being unique in it's means of doing so. When you have an idea for a skill, jot it down, then read it along with every other skill you have thus far two or three times. Make sure you can see each skill working with the others in a meaningful and interesting way. If not, it may be time to rethink that skill. Either way, keep with this process as long as you can, and if need be repeat 3 and 4 a couple times til you've got a product you're happy with

(OPTIONAL) While I havn't done this, I know several who have, and that is to take what you've got so far, and send a PM to someone you respect and view as a good Herocrafter, asking for their ideas on what you've got so far.

6) Post it up! You've got at least the startings of a hero going, let's see what people have to say. Remember that by this point, you've pretty much maximized the hero's operation within your own head, so listen carefully to what other people say. Generally speaking, a hero won't change 100% once they reach this point. That's not to say that they won't, but the changes should be much more subtle than those in stage 5. Generally expect 1 skill to change in a significant way, with minor changes to 1-2 others. These are by no mean accurate numbers, but I'm putting them here as a best guess.

7) Smile! You've just made a hero, and whether it makes it or not, Dusk tends to surf the suggestions while looking for inspiration, and this hero may be just what he's looking for.

And as always GL, HF.
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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