Corvus, Raven Host

[TheDeathstalker]

You missed the bleeding sarcasm in his post, dude... He's not all too happy about rebuilding what seems to him like a good hero because it doesn't feel like a character. It's understandable as he's done it once already.

Oxy, if there's any thing we can do to help with the rebuild, let us know. I think the hero's pretty good as is, but then again so was that old soldier dude you had. And he just oozed character...

[LightburneR]

I like his current skill set (Hi I'm new <_<), except for a few things.

You are basically forced to use his first skill before you use the second because if he sends or his crows to a target, unless I misunderstood, he would have no crows left to use for his first skill.

And another thing I have noted is the absolute synergy between the second and ultimate skills. The second skill throws all your Ravens on a target and the ultimate calls them back, but that isn't my main point. What I was trying to raise is that the only reason I would use the first skill was to chase a target weakened by this combination of the Second and Ultimate skill to death.

Also, there was no way to use your Ravens properly. They don't have a collision size to "creep block" and neither can they attack. For me, they look like a weakness to the hero (Think AotZ's Legion with Un-Invunrable Blades, Glaive and Strike Legions, that would be it) rather than an asset.

[Co0kieL0rd]

I think this would be fine - his ravens are like Legion's Legions (lol) - unselectable but with the difference to have a collision size to keep enemies away from Corvus. I think that's what Lightburner wanted to say with his imaginary word Un-Invunrable...

(Think AotZ's Legion with Un-Invunrable Blades, Glaive and Strike Legions, that would be it )

[SetaSoujirou]

I like his current skill set (Hi I'm new <_<), except for a few things.

You are basically forced to use his first skill before you use the second because if he sends or his crows to a target, unless I misunderstood, he would have no crows left to use for his first skill.

And another thing I have noted is the absolute synergy between the second and ultimate skills. The second skill throws all your Ravens on a target and the ultimate calls them back, but that isn't my main point. What I was trying to raise is that the only reason I would use the first skill was to chase a target weakened by this combination of the Second and Ultimate skill to death.

Also, there was no way to use your Ravens properly. They don't have a collision size to "creep block" and neither can they attack. For me, they look like a weakness to the hero (Think AotZ's Legion with Un-Invunrable Blades, Glaive and Strike Legions, that would be it) rather than an asset.

A lot of your points don't make sense to me.

If anything the so called 'absolute synergy' would be the first and ultimate skills. If I were to pick this hero, chances are I'd get the first and third skill, so I don't know what you're talking about with the first/second. I don't see how collision-less ravens serves as a weakness to him, as it augments him. I didn't quite understand your relation to Legion, as if he were to play without his legions, he'd be quite boned, much like Corvus without his ravens.

[LightburneR]

Let's just make the assumption that you have 10 Ravens with you now.

You use your Second Skill to an ally, and when an enemy comes to attack you, you stand inbetween that ally which has your Ravens and use your Ultimate. The situation will turn out into 10 Ravens running straight into that poor enemy, compared to the kind of Set-Up the first skill can prove, the second is just much more attractive.

Corvus' only use for his Ravens are for catalysis for his spells, much like Legion. Legion could be done in the same way without emphasis on the Legions and he would've turned out just the same and unfortunately, Corvus happens to fall into that same category.

As earlier mentioned by T.s.e-kun, Myriad's Swarm has to be used to the fullest to ever be useful. Unlike Myriad however, Corvus is absolutely unable to use his swarm at all!

The Crows do not benifit him other than the fact that they are needed for his spells. You are unable to block enemies with his crows and neither are you able to use them to attack, if you've played Myriad or watched him being played successfully you'll know what I mean.

All you need them for is to cast spells, and due to that, he cannot utilize his swarm at all, and to make it worse, his crows can die, preventing him from casting spells, which is why I say and believe that his crows are a disbenifit to him rather than a benifit.

[Co0kieL0rd]

Corvus' only use for his Ravens are for catalysis for his spells, much like Legion. Legion could be done in the same way without emphasis on the Legions and he would've turned out just the same and unfortunately, Corvus happens to fall into that same category.

The first statement is not right. Legions needs no catalysis to use his spells - he simply casts them without any condition to be achieved before, whereas Corvus needs to utilize his ravens to cast. Corvus isn't similar to Legion at all, but rather falls in the category 'swarm heroes' and can be compared to Myriad.

As earlier mentioned by T.s.e-kun, Myriad's Swarm has to be used to the fullest to ever be useful. Unlike Myriad however, Corvus is absolutely unable to use his swarm at all!

Agreed that Corvus doesn't tap the full potetial of a swarm hero but without his ravens he would be ass-kicked on the battlefield a fortiori.

The Crows do not benifit him other than the fact that they are needed for his spells. You are unable to block enemies with his crows and neither are you able to use them to attack, if you've played Myriad or watched him being played successfully you'll know what I mean.

All you need them for is to cast spells, and due to that, he cannot utilize his swarm at all, and to make it worse, his crows can die, preventing him from casting spells, which is why I say and believe that his crows are a disbenifit to him rather than a benifit.

Thats harshly verbalized because as conditions for his spells, Corvus' ravens aren't completely useless, their utility just has to be improved, e. g. as permanent life stealers around him. And it would be sensible to give them a 90% evasion or something.

[SetaSoujirou]

Honestly, I think comparing one hero (especially a hero suggestion) to an already implemented one to be really illogical. Because they were made with different intentions at mind, therefore, they won't always shape up to each other. Also. You're comparing them from DoE to AotZ. Huge difference man.

[Oxygen]

The current problem that I see is that ravens can be either used for one or another thing, not really both at once, at least, not at full effectiveness. While this is interesting for the whole raven babysitting thing, it's counterproductive. The passive is boring. Ravens going to protect someone is rather unrealistic, too, and this needs to be remplaced.

In conclusion, unless I find something really original to do, the whole swarm system may fall, and I may literally change the hero, to the point it might just be better to totally make a new thread and leave this one alone, to rot, perhaps. Bring ideas, there are 3 slots for new abilities.

[TheDeathstalker]

Here's a few ideas:

Become The Flock
Corvus splits into X several ravens for Y seconds. He would of course keep access to the skills, and would die if all the ravens were killed (just like the panda's split).

Scatter
Corvus disappears, and his flock is sent out in all directions, dealing X damage to units struck. After Y distance, Corvus reappears at the location of one of the ravens (This is cast like a normal teleport, and at least one raven is sent in the direction of the teleport, you could probably tack some condition on as well).

Carrion Combustion
Passively causes ravens to consume corpses. After a raven eats a corpse, it will explode when it next collides with a unit, dealing X damage. (again, you could add a condition here)

[Oxygen]

I like scatter, the more ravens the more damage and more possibilities. I'll see what I can do with it, great idea.

[Rising_Dusk]

It would be cooler if the ravens could tank with like 90% evasion or something obscene. I also really don't like the skill that protects an ally. You could just make a skill that sends X ravens to follow target unit, ally or enemy, and let the ravens' AI decide what role that would serve. The problem with this, or even the current manner, is that it's just Haunt with an innate demand associated to it.

[Oxygen]

It would be cooler if the ravens could tank with like 90% evasion or something obscene. I also really don't like the skill that protects an ally. You could just make a skill that sends X ravens to follow target unit, ally or enemy, and let the ravens' AI decide what role that would serve. The problem with this, or even the current manner, is that it's just Haunt with an innate demand associated to it.

Yes, that's the problem I had with the whole swarming thing ( even think I mentioned it ) is that haunt somewhat ruins its whole originality. This is why I made peck the eyes a single target, where you could send multiple ravens to increase the DPS potential.

Something related to evasion is a good idea~

[VZManticoran]

Perhaps have it be a stackable buff that adds 6/7/8/9/10% evasion to the target per raven assigned? So the enemy is forced to kill the ravens before they can hit the target.

[Oxygen]

Perhaps have it be a stackable buff that adds 6/7/8/9/10% evasion to the target per raven assigned? So the enemy is forced to kill the ravens before they can hit the target.

Problem with this is that it takes no skill to use, its just a click & forget. For the enemy, on the other hand, it can be a pain in the ass.

[LightburneR]

Perhaps, it sends a small number of Ravens to the targeted area and units within the area have their damage absorbed by the Ravens?

"Something related to evasion is a good idea~", erm, don't they already Blind units? Giving them Evasion would be turning them Invunrable to physical attacks.

Some ideas:

???

Corvus enters the body of the targeted Raven. While in the Raven, it gains X attack, Y health and Z movement speed. Corvus may exit the Raven at any point of time.

Dismember

The target Raven gains an attack and cripples and maims the next target it hits for X seconds and dealing Y damage. Lasts for Z attacks.

Crow Cloud

Sends X Ravens to the target area, and allies in the area are unbreakabilty invisible, except Ravens. Lasts until all Ravens die or after Y seconds.

OR, it could be a Passive.

Whenever there are X Ravens within Y range of each other, nearby allies are unbreakabily invisible.

Formation Flight

The entire flock takes X seconds to line up, then fly forward in a V-shaped formation, dealing Y damage to units stuck and blinding them for Z seconds. The Ravens then return to Corvus and on their way, pecking Blinded units for Y damage.

Relentless Attacks

As long as a unit attacked by a Raven within Y range of Corvus, another Raven will be detached from Corvus to attack that unit again, dealing X damage and blinding/bleeding for Z seconds.