Hector, the Triumphant

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Rising_Dusk
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Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Rising_Dusk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:22 pm

Hector
Triumphant
Intelligence; Order.

Level 1 Skill:
Smite
  • Target Unit.
    Target allied unit loses a condition. All foes nearby the target unit take X magickal damage. If a condition is removed by this spell, the damage is tripled and struck foes are ruined for 7 seconds.
Level 1 Skill:
Radiance
  • Target Unit, Buff.
    All enemy units nearby target unit take X magickal damage per second and suffer from burn for 3 seconds.
    Lasts 12 seconds.
Level 1 Skill:
The Judge's Scythe
  • Passive.
    Hector's attacks deal a flat X bonus damage, increased by Y damage (Max: Z) for each second of burn suffered by all nearby foes.
Level 6 Ultimate:
His Forlorn Reach
  • Target Unit.
    Whenever target unit suffers from a condition, Hector teleports to it for an attack dealing X percent of his attack damage to the target as physical damage.
    Lasts 20 seconds.
This guy is an actual character from the story. Do not fear 3 click-shoot skills, they are not as trivial to aim as you might think at first glance.
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Vinnam
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Re: Hector of Forlorn Reach, the Triumphant

Post by Vinnam » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:39 pm

Ehh... Gotta say, I'm not digging the name much. Specifically, the clashing of the first half with the second half. Most of the hero names present so far seem to roll off the tongue, while the name of this hero seems to be a tad long. The title of Triumphant also seems a bit lackluster.

Then again, its your story, so I can just go die in a fire if you want his name/title to be that :D
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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Rising_Dusk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:44 pm

The problem is that DoE doesn't support the naming scheme, and this guy's name is actually rather important being that long. He shouldn't actually have a "title," but that would be contradictory to DoE's style, so I gave him a short one. It is not a story problem, it is a map convention conflict with the story.

Hector, the X of Forlorn Reach is wrong.
Hector, the of Forlorn Reach is bad. (This is how it would unfortunately display)
Hector of Forlorn Reach is breaking convention, which is lame (ergo bad).
My solution was the best that could be done.

If I had to cut "of Forlorn Reach" entirely, I would be very, very sad.

I am very, very sad. :cry:
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Vinnam
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Vinnam » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:47 pm

Sorry for making you sad, Duskeh :<

Also, a thought that occured to me; unless Hector is actually going to be placed in a forthcoming iteration of DoE (and was not just posted here to have him down for Story reasons and to flesh out the world), then I see no reason why you can't name him whatever you want, despite DoE's naming conventions. If he's a Storyboard hero that isn't going to figure in a game, then you could give him whatever name you wanted!
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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Rising_Dusk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:49 pm

It is lame to suggest a hero with the preconceived notion that it will never get into the map.
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pandamanar
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by pandamanar » Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:53 pm

Vinnam wrote:I just noticed, names for Hero Suggestions are just placeholders that don't matter, since if the hero is actually implemented, Dusk will change the names (for good reason of course)... so you could give him whatever name you wanted and other people should be reading the skills and stop fussing about the cosmetics.
fixed

also... I like him, but I think the whole Fire + Paladin scheme could be done better... I just don't know how :] I think its the passive.
Also, doesn't his ultimate give him one less condition to smite? Making it less useful, if only by like... 1%.
P.S.

You should really get under people's skins and make his name, title and skill names a giant haiku.
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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Rising_Dusk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:04 pm

pandamanar wrote:also... I like him, but I think the whole Fire + Paladin scheme could be done better... I just don't know how :] I think its the passive.
Erm, but he's not a paladin, like, at all.
pandamanar wrote:Also, doesn't his ultimate give him one less condition to smite? Making it less useful, if only by like... 1%.
Yes, it would. I didn't really consider this a problem, though, since once you reach L6 conditions usually flow across the battlefield in excess.
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Deschain
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Deschain » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:11 pm

I think this hero would somewhat clash with Vic. I mean he stole his smite (albeit Vic's working differently) !!
His skills seem to be weakly interacting... Or maybe I'm jaded.

BTW I hate cyan and orange on light blue theme.
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Rising_Dusk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:14 pm

Stole his smite? Fist of the Heavens moves conditions from Victor to the target and heals/damages the target. Smite deals AOE damage around the target and removes a condition from the target. The functionality, usage, and net-gain from the spells are completely different.
Deschain wrote:His skills seem to be weakly interacting...
Dunno, AOE burn on a short cooldown on the second skill results in high attack damage from the passive. The ult then deals a % of his attack damage scaled to the condition duration reflected. First skill rounds out the utility with some healthy damage and condition control. It seems pretty clearly interactive to me.
Deschain wrote:BTW I hate cyan and orange on light blue theme.
Sorry. :|
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by TheDeathstalker » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:18 pm

Deschain wrote:His skills seem to be weakly interacting
*twitch*

I know you mean don't interact well, but "weakly interacting" makes me think the weak force...

As to the skills themselves, they interact no worse than any other hero in the game for the large part. He's just playing with the durations of conditions (god forbid he ever team with Dis and Fahren), and doing so in a very safe way (safe as in I see no ways that this would explode other than with stupid enemies or a very skilled Dis/Fahren teamup, which is already death on legs).

Nice hero.
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Deschain
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Deschain » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:28 pm

Yeah, but ulti requires that they put a condition on it. Sadly I'm unsure if the meta is saturated with passive conditions vectors (oh man I'm s sciency ;) ), but couldn't they just ignore the unit that has Forlorn Reach on and pounce on it with pure physical damage (Dag, Vert probably couldn't not sure about other hero/item combination)?
Sorry. :|
What I was silently implying was there another darker theme like wc3campaigns have? My fancy LCD monitor seems to be set on blistering white thus obliterating most of contrast :| sparking my sarcastic remark.
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Rising_Dusk » Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:38 pm

Deschain wrote:but couldn't they just ignore the unit that has Forlorn Reach on and pounce on it with pure physical damage (Dag, Vert probably couldn't not sure about other hero/item combination)?
It sounds to me like an amazing winning strategy if the enemy players completely ignore a hero that has His Forlorn Reach on it. Furthermore, the enemies not inflicting conditions willingly is again a great success. Now that player doesn't have to worry about conditions! It's even better if it stops them from getting certain items, since that totally shunts entire sections of their current build.
Deschain wrote:What I was silently implying was there another darker theme like wc3campaigns have? My fancy LCD monitor seems to be set on blistering white thus obliterating most of contrast :| sparking my sarcastic remark.
We don't have any other themes right now, but I guess we could look into that. You should post something about it in Forum Suggestions so Crev sees it.
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Hydrolisk » Thu Nov 05, 2009 12:44 am

Rising_Dusk wrote:It sounds to me like an amazing winning strategy if the enemy players completely ignore a hero that has His Forlorn Reach on it. Furthermore, the enemies not inflicting conditions willingly is again a great success. Now that player doesn't have to worry about conditions! It's even better if it stops them from getting certain items, since that totally shunts entire sections of their current build.
When designing a Hero, it is almost always a bad idea to give the control of the outcome of something to the enemy. What giving control of an outcome to the enemy means making a Hero of one team the Hero of another. The "winning strategy" you speak of ruins the quality of a Hero by taking away the fun of playing the Hero from the player. The player is no longer playing his Hero, but allowing his enemies to play it. And really, that makes no sense -- I'm sure a player is playing in the first place not because he wants to see his own Hero get used against itself.

However, don't interpret my post as an attempt to push you in one way. This is just my opinion I garnered from playing chess in which a decision shouldn't put oneself in the hands of the enemy. DoE has a different metagame and gameplay in general -- if this is what you want, I personally don't complain -- I think abilities like this is cool, although frustrating when it doesn't work.

I think that the ultimate sets itself up to be an ability rarely learned and upgraded. I'm taking this from a very competitive perspective, which is where I am also taking my warning from. Really, it's up to you, but I hope you understand that you undertake the risk of making a Hero with an ability that might never be used.
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Rising_Dusk » Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:00 am

Hydrolisk wrote:When designing a Hero, it is almost always a bad idea to give the control of the outcome of something to the enemy.
The control is the players', how that control is exhibited is the enemies'. Remember that the player gets to choose which unit he guards, and so if cast on a hero, it is an instant spell of "suddenly, team!" versus one dude or whatever. Anyways, the counterattack power makes the ability more of a deterrent or a split-second cast before a condition application.

I agree that the enemy is certainly deciding when to inflict a condition, but it is not as though they can perform optimally by biding their time forever. Imagine in chess, if there were a penalty of losing 3 pieces to take the enemy's 1 piece. You wouldn't do that, would you? You'd only do it if it were a 1 to 1 trade (or better) and you're either taking an equally valued piece or a higher. It is not like, say, Innert's old spirit summoning skill. In that skill, the enemy lost nothing by just shooting the spirit at a range and yanking a lame Innert back for a cheap kill. In this case, in order to pull Hector back, you have to lose far more than he will. This is especially detrimental because the ability is powerful on short duration conditions. (3s condition being blocked is a 300% scaling, now imagine something like EoD's 10s cripple) The enemy will be guided by who has this buff, not the other way around, and that is always a fun thing to do.
Hydrolisk wrote:...although frustrating when it doesn't work.
Everything is frustrating when it doesn't work.
Hydrolisk wrote:I think that the ultimate sets itself up to be an ability rarely learned and upgraded.
The ability to set up a 900 damage counterattack spree on an enemy hero is something "rarely learned and upgraded"? Surely you jest. (Or maybe you don't and really haven't played DoE in years or something) When I say a variable X, it is going to be substantial enough that you'll want to learn it. It'll be a fun ult, it'll give the player control over what the enemy does and if they even try to do what they normally do, and it'd give the possibility for some serious counterattack sprees. (Cooldown is shorter than duration)
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Re: Hector, the Triumphant

Post by Rising_Dusk » Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:34 pm

I updated this dude after an epiphany I just had. His ultimate is now more controlled and I made his passive useful at level 1. Also added ruin to Smite because the Order needs more of it.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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