Jhita

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Rising_Dusk
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Jhita

Post by Rising_Dusk » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:34 pm

Thoughts:
  • I hate Heatdeath mixed with PI and Trident.
  • I don't want to change PI, so the change must be to HD.
  • I hate how no-aim Heatdeath and FaF are.
  • I really like the heat seeker-ness of FaF.
  • I really hate how FaF is so effective at melee range.
  • I really like the skill name Heatdeath and want to keep the spell's effect in the vain of that name.
  • I really like Explosive Arrows and En Fuego and would prefer to keep them as-is.
Possible Solutions:
  • Heatdeath: Target unit takes X magickal damage whenever burn is refreshed on it. Lasts 8 seconds.
  • FaF: Doesn't explode for the first 1500 distance traveled.
Discuss.
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Loki
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Re: Jhita

Post by Loki » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:00 pm

Make FaF's damage based on distance traveled? (With a damage cap of course.)
Heatdeath = make a source of damage add X seconds of burn?
Let's do what comes naturally
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Re: Jhita

Post by Av3n » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:03 pm

As long as he gameplay changes (he's a right click hero right now which I hate) I'm fine on however you adjust him ^^.

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Last edited by Av3n on Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Jhita

Post by Rising_Dusk » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:05 pm

He's already the worst right-click hero, right up there with Caliga.
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pandamanar
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Re: Jhita

Post by pandamanar » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:39 pm

I think it would have been awesome if you had made him/her the opposite of his/her version in AoTZ. But I've never seen this Heatdeath skill... so I don't know what thats about, but I agree that FaF needs to not be able to be shotgun'd.
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Re: Jhita

Post by Separation » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:49 pm

Heatdeath: Target unit takes X magickal damage whenever burn is refreshed on it. Lasts 8 seconds.
That works, and if you want to eliminate the perma-stun aspect it can achieve with the PI + Trident, make it non-specified damage. (Like Miasma).

As for FaF, you could make it like Precision in a way, and give an error message if cast within melee range. You shoot the fireball up in the air and it lands at the target location (exploding and doing its original affect). Could also still seek out burning targets.

This change possibly increases the skill level of aiming FaF as well as making it more WTF / Cool. Also, making it only explode after X distance or something seems to be too unrealistic. I think changing the way it's used may work best to achieve the goals.

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assassingao
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Re: Jhita

Post by assassingao » Thu Oct 01, 2009 8:17 pm

Heatdeath: Target unit takes X magickal damage whenever burn is refreshed on it. Lasts 8 seconds.
Too dependent on burn. If there is no condition, I propose to make it extends burn every second instead.

(This way; it won't be too weak with burn, but it's dispellable without burn.)


Fire and Flames: Could come from some random direction, appearing out of nowhere to the target AoE.

If there are burning players, it seeks.

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Oxygen
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Re: Jhita

Post by Oxygen » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:05 pm

Rising_Dusk wrote:[*]I hate Heatdeath mixed with PI and Trident.
I like your change to heatdeath (magic damage per burn) though I think it should work with all conditions, and have burn applications do double the normal effect ie

heatdeath
Target takes X magic damage whenever they suffer from a condition, and 2X magic damage whenever they suffer from burn. Some duration.
Rising_Dusk wrote:[*]I don't want to change PI, so the change must be to HD.
yea
Rising_Dusk wrote:[*]I hate how no-aim Heatdeath and FaF are.
Doesn't matter for heatdeath. Have faf actually come from, like, behind of jhita, as if he beckoned it from afar. Hell, he can even do his little arm raise thing as if, yeah, he asked it to come.
Rising_Dusk wrote:[*]I really like the heat seeker-ness of FaF.
So keep that, could slow faf down a little though.
Rising_Dusk wrote:[*]I really hate how FaF is so effective at melee range.
Fixed by my suggestion of having it come from further behind jhita rather than from jhita itself
Rising_Dusk wrote:[*]I really like the skill name Heatdeath and want to keep the spell's effect in the vain of that name.
So keep it!
Rising_Dusk wrote:[*]I really like Explosive Arrows and En Fuego and would prefer to keep them as-is.
Me too, though explosive arrows could use a cooldown ;d jhita stacking ias is pretty silly

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2-P
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Re: Jhita

Post by 2-P » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:15 pm

I don't understand what you see in explosive arrows and en fuego, they make him way too right-click and gogo for my taste.
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TheDeathstalker
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Re: Jhita

Post by TheDeathstalker » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:47 pm

2-p, first off, epic sig/avatar scheme, I like.

On point though, I don't think there's anything wrong with a hero being "gogo" and a single on attack spell isn't that obnoxiously right-click. I think they're doing well as they are, but I agree that Heatdeath needs some theory work on it, if only because it's just so "blah, you're dead" if you get lucky, and otherwise, it's unavoidable pain.

Huh, Quick thought: You could have it just deal X damage whenever they are hit with a burn, or you could have it burn off each of those seconds instantly, dealing X% increased burn damage. That way both Spectral Shard and Crown work well for Jhita, two items I don't think anyone's ever really bothered with for him.
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Re: Jhita

Post by Fledermaus » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:48 pm

Oxygen wrote:
Rising_Dusk wrote:[*]I hate how no-aim Heatdeath and FaF are.
Doesn't matter for heatdeath. Have faf actually come from, like, behind of jhita, as if he beckoned it from afar. Hell, he can even do his little arm raise thing as if, yeah, he asked it to come.
Omg yes please! Jhita needs heat seeking boat :D
In all seriousness though, this wouldn't really change the fact you can cast it at melee range, just make it a tad harder to depending on how far back it was spawned,

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TheDeathstalker
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Re: Jhita

Post by TheDeathstalker » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:56 pm

Fledermaus wrote:
Oxygen wrote:
Rising_Dusk wrote:[*]I hate how no-aim Heatdeath and FaF are.
Doesn't matter for heatdeath. Have faf actually come from, like, behind of jhita, as if he beckoned it from afar. Hell, he can even do his little arm raise thing as if, yeah, he asked it to come.
Omg yes please! Jhita needs heat seeking boat :D
In all seriousness though, this wouldn't really change the fact you can cast it at melee range, just make it a tad harder to depending on how far back it was spawned,
Or that a dasterdly creative player could just turn Jhita around and fire it, having it spawn on them.
And though you come out of each gruelling bout,
All broken and beaten and scarred,
Just have one more try—it’s dead easy to die,
It’s the keeping-on-living that’s hard.

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Re: Jhita

Post by Separation » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:09 pm

Or that a dasterdly creative player could just turn Jhita around and fire it, having it spawn on them.
Yep, that's how people aim boat in ToB, since it's based off of stampede.

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Fledermaus
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Re: Jhita

Post by Fledermaus » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:12 pm

Separation wrote:
Or that a dasterdly creative player could just turn Jhita around and fire it, having it spawn on them.
Yep, that's how people aim boat in ToB, since it's based off of stampede.
Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

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pandamanar
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Re: Jhita

Post by pandamanar » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:13 pm

Why not have it build up for like... half a second or a second and form a fireball, and then gains speed as it goes, so it kind of has to be sniped... or at least not shotgun'd.
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