Meridia

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2-P
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Meridia

Post by 2-P » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:03 am

Guess I'll just bring the point of the thread right up: I find Meridia too situational.

So we have that spawn based hero that is theoretically able to "easily" bring down a base all by herself.. (Did you ever try to play with her as a ganking hero killer? I tried it a few times and failed miserably, but anyway..)
Since her skeletons are low on hit points (still under 200 on level 5 I think) she's pretty damn vulnerable to aoe heavy heroes. Yeah, she can disable casters with her ult, but well... that's often just not possible ingame. If a hero like aurea stands inside her base defending it against you, you'd have to run in and attack her... well good luck, that's a suicide mission most of the time. Even if you mute her there are usually enough other enemies around that tear you apart within seconds.
Yeah, she's damn effective when no one is there to stop her, but that's very rarely the case. And imo it's too easy to stop her right now. There are enough other heroes who do a better job than her. She kinda feels "a little bit of everything" to me, without a point where she really excels others.
She's an awesome harassing/pushing hero early game with KoD+Gravenova, but that combo loses effectiveness later on.

Well, so much to me. >.<
What do you think?
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Re: Meridia

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Sep 27, 2009 11:13 am

This has been established in 1.13c and has been corrected for in 1.14. I was really pissed off at Meridia in 1.13b (or something) so I overnerfed her into oblivion so she couldn't do anything well anymore. She sees the well-needed fixed in 1.14.

Code: Select all

[X] - Skeletal Underlings now have 100/140/180 max life
[X] - Beyond the Grave now steals 6/7/8/9/10 life per hit
[X] - Beyond the Grave now drains 2 mana per hit
[X] - Kiss of Death now costs 20 mana
For reference.
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Oxygen
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Re: Meridia

Post by Oxygen » Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:51 pm

rock paper scissors

she can obliterate certain heroes, yet is literally useless against other. don't forget that she's the only hero with the ability to REALLY perma mute someone, though her arrows would be tight as hell if they inflicted a random condition as originally theorized.. I can dream, right?

I still have issues with necrosis, is it healing or life drain? ie, no damage or more damage? Like, explain to me when you'd want to be using it

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Re: Meridia

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Sep 27, 2009 2:07 pm

It is life drain, which results in healing. Basically, X life is removed from the struck foe and added to your own life.
Oxygen wrote:though her arrows would be tight as hell if they inflicted a random condition as originally theorized.. I can dream, right?
The reason I didn't go through with that was because it was the kind of "random" that was really gay. Sometimes Meridia would get the shaft and inflict Bleed for 6 seconds 4 times in a row, and yet other times she could get really lucky and the target unit would be owned by her cripple, mute, and ruin. It would only work if all conditions carried equal value, and they do not do that by design, so..
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Re: Meridia

Post by 2-P » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:18 pm

She sees the well-needed fixed in 1.14.
Image

They have a pre-change log with the changes for the upcoming version in the TBA forums, helpful stuff you know. =P
rock paper scissors
is just lame in the moment it becomes too extreme.
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Re: Meridia

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:30 pm

A pre-change log? That's an idea, but it'd be kind of a pain to update it every ten seconds as it evolves on my computer.
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Re: Meridia

Post by Pigger » Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:36 pm

You've got nothing better to do, right? Right?!

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Oxygen
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Re: Meridia

Post by Oxygen » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:35 pm

Rising_Dusk wrote:It is life drain, which results in healing. Basically, X life is removed from the struck foe and added to your own life.
Oxygen wrote:though her arrows would be tight as hell if they inflicted a random condition as originally theorized.. I can dream, right?
The reason I didn't go through with that was because it was the kind of "random" that was really gay. Sometimes Meridia would get the shaft and inflict Bleed for 6 seconds 4 times in a row, and yet other times she could get really lucky and the target unit would be owned by her cripple, mute, and ruin. It would only work if all conditions carried equal value, and they do not do that by design, so..
...so have it apply different durations of conditions, it's not as if all spells applied 5 seconds of burn, mute, cripple or knockdown... Besides, no matter what the result would be, it would have to be positive. Sure, bleed isn't as good as mute, but you still have the possibility to maybe apply 3-4 conditions on a single target in the long run, and that is pretty awesome. Rikter or atrius players don't feel like they get "the shaft" when their %'s don't happen, I'm fairly sure. Does an equal change to get 1 sec of stun or knockdown, 3 sec of cripple, mute or burn, 5 sec of maim, blind or ruin and 7 sec of bleed sound fair/sweet for an ultimate?

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Re: Meridia

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Sep 27, 2009 5:50 pm

Oxygen wrote:Rikter or atrius players don't feel like they get "the shaft" when their %'s don't happen, I'm fairly sure.
Obviously, but that's irrelevant. It is because they don't "lose out" if they don't get what they want. At the worst, Rikter and Atrius break even, their abilities and %'s are chances to do better, and don't cost 40/30/20 mana per attempt with a possible net loss (where the ability inflicts bleed, which is totally not worth the mana cost). The difference therein is crucial.

Furthermore, having different durations for each result in quite possibly the longest tooltip in DoE. Not even to mention, I still wouldn't want bleed over the better conditions. Ever.
Oxygen wrote:Does an equal change to get 1 sec of stun or knockdown, 3 sec of cripple, mute or burn, 5 sec of maim, blind or ruin and 7 sec of bleed sound fair/sweet for an ultimate?
I like random conditions as much as the next kiddie, but I'm uneasy about it. If enough people (ie. a lot more than just you) want me to try it, I will. If only you express interest, I won't.
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pandamanar
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Re: Meridia

Post by pandamanar » Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:12 pm

So its a petition you want, aye? /signed

Also, I believe that Meridia needs some sort of change. She just doesn't feel all-too powerful and her skillset makes me feel like I must rely on the Death Nova + Low Health Skeleton strategy to accomplish anything. I'd appreciate a random-condition infliction arrow ultimate. I do agree, also, that all conditions are not treated equal and I can't really think of anyway to get around that besides pre-established different durations for each condition.
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Re: Meridia

Post by Phox » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:17 pm

I personally don't like the idea of random conditions as an arrows effect, since while it could be very powerful, it could also be pretty shitty.

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Re: Meridia

Post by Oxygen » Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:27 pm

Phox wrote:I personally don't like the idea of random conditions as an arrows effect, since while it could be very powerful, it could also be pretty shitty.
You guys make conditions sound like they're negative. Meridia's high on the mana side, 40 mana (half at level 18) is definitely worth gambling with if you got pretty nifty summons possibly beating on a target.

None said you couldn't have them extend if you had the same one twice 8D

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Re: Meridia

Post by Rectifier » Mon Sep 28, 2009 12:57 am

An ability that can cause random conditions seems against DoE's condition system.

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Re: Meridia

Post by TwilightDreamer » Mon Sep 28, 2009 4:15 am

I think random conditions would be cool if you could get it to "work". =O
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Re: Meridia

Post by 2-P » Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:09 am

How does a random condition arrow fit in her skillset? The mute only already feels kinda alien, but random conditions?
All I can see coming out of this is that players will mass attack and movement speed items and then right click on the enemy for the win* (or the loss if you have bad luck).Gravenova and especially KoD would become bystanders.


*And that spot is already taken by jhita harhar xD
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