Meridia

This is where all bug reports or hero complaints regarding DoE should be made. Whether you have an issue with balance or an exploit to shed light on, this is the place to put it.
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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Meridia

Post by Rising_Dusk » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:45 am

Oxygen wrote:numbers can always be tweaked if something feels too strong.
  • Spell needs to be strong without conditions otherwise it's too conditional: Forces at least 4/5/6/7/8 life stolen minimum.
  • To ensure growth per level and level 1 again not being useless, bonus per condition has to be at least 2/3/4/5/6.
  • Net gain against a hero that's wrath'd at max level, minimum: 8+42/hit.
  • Conclusion: Way too much damage and nerfing the damage just serves to make it underwhelming without any conditions.
Oxygen wrote:I just find sad that you ditched such a sweet double synergy because of a moment of blurred vision of doe's reality.
Just because two things can synergize in a really powerful way does not mean that they should. It doesn't take a "real" vision or a "blurred" vision of anything's reality to know that.
Oxygen wrote:I'm done talking about meridia forever, I gave my ideas and explained my points, it's your map, do whatever, I just think you're passing on a real nice concept with not randomizing stiffling arrows and btg's current incarnation
The real pity is that if you were more modest, sincere, and humble, the points you made might not have appeared so pointless and unnecessary and may have actually had an impact.
2-P wrote:Anyway, waiting for the next version.
That's about the best any of us can do.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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Oxygen
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Re: Meridia

Post by Oxygen » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:53 am

Rising_Dusk wrote: The real pity is that if you were more modest, sincere, and humble, the points you made might not have appeared so pointless and unnecessary and may have actually had an impact.
I'm not writing my grandmother a letter, I'm expressing my opinion on an internet forum. I deeply hope (for yourself) that you aren't passing on potentially good ideas just because someone doesn't "appear" to be correct/friendly/whatever. Remember that there's a language barrier between you and I and what sounds neutral to me could sound offensive or cocky or whatever to you. I always told everybody to take at least 75% off of what I say for this reason, but I'm still not going to change or spend time reviewing how I say stuff just so people feel better when they read my posts.

In fact, I could try

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Meridia

Post by Rising_Dusk » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:47 pm

And even when expressing your opinion, it is critical to do so in a way that comes off as non-aggressive. I'm not asking you to write a letter to your grandmother, I'm asking you to be a dignified human being that respects other human beings' intellectual capacity. If you do not present yourself in a way that is non-offensive, it doesn't matter the veracity of your claims because you effectively destroy your own credibility on the matter. This is standard human logos and ethos. Furthermore, I know plenty of Canadians or French primary-speakers, and trust me - the language barrier does not result in any misgivings in demeanor. Your attitude is entirely your own problem and has no explanation in that you speak French first and English second, so don't try to defend yourself by saying that you can't fix it when you very well can (and just choose not to).

The only reason you're even banned from the VZ channel is because of the attitude and your unwillingness to fix it. I let you stay on the forums because it is easier to manage, however, lately you've been abusing my generosity. (Yes, it is generosity) I don't like ultimatums, but for the good of the site and my sanity, I will not permit you to persist in your current fashion. This is a good ole' case of shape up or ship out.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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Oxygen
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Re: Meridia

Post by Oxygen » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:22 pm

set aside from the fact that I'm highly cynical for now.

Did you retain/decide to change anything based on anything from the entire thread? I'd like to know where to restart

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Meridia

Post by Rising_Dusk » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:31 pm

Current thoughts:
  • I recognize Meridia sucks, I have addressed this presently as listed in this post.
  • Random conditions could be cool on Stifling Arrows like her original concept, but I am uncomfortable giving her access to them so easily for the following reasons:
    • They'd entirely change her role as a caster. People would just shoot the heck out of enemies and that's not what she's supposed to do. PP described this issue very adequately here.
    • There is a chance to net lose out, because regardless of durations, mute/blind/cripple/ruin are more valuable in the instantaneous metagame than the DPS conditions or the others. This is unlike Rikter/Atrius in that they never have a chance to lose out, they only have a chance to do better. (Note that their effects are passives and don't cost mana; if they did cost mana, they'd be just as lame)
    • If enough people really want me to do it, I will try it. So far, the consensus seems half in favor and half in opposition.
  • I think Beyond the Grave will be great with the buffs I've listed in the post in my first bullet here. Others seem to think it's awful, but even in gameplay (in a previous version) I could testify in the skill's favor.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

Soul_Reaver
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Re: Meridia

Post by Soul_Reaver » Thu Oct 01, 2009 6:05 pm

I'm against random conditions.
It would feel random and it would come down entirely to luck what condition you get and suck or own based on that.
The only reason I'd ever support a hero having random conditions if that hero (Because of its skill set) required lots of different conditions on the same target to do well.

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Nowaki
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Re: Meridia

Post by Nowaki » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:02 pm

I think Mute works very well the way it is... Stiffling Arrows applying random conditions would feel too unreliable.
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