Kassar

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: Kassar

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue Jul 15, 2008 12:50 pm

Kassar is a tank because his ultimate scares enemy players from focusing the worst of their condition-placing abilities on him. You will never Wrath a max level Kassar, 420 AOE damage in a gargantuan area is more threatening to you than the 100 + conditions + change on him. In this light, he tanks because no one focuses their worst on him.

He also has large life compared with casters like Aurea/Arro Kree/Stille, who are a whopping 500 or so life lower than Kassar. He may be slow, but he certainly outspeeds all other heroes (Ignoring boots) with a good level in Shifting Sands. Also, Fassat El' Afreet is quite effective as a support offensive skill, since he can't veritably take advantage of half of its ruin bonus (ie. he's blind), but others can. Granted, his other nukes are physical and the +40% damage Ruin gives those is considerable to say the least.

And yes, I'm glad not everyone is stupid. He's a hero of opportunity, which is also half of how Sozen functions. Taking advantage of situations where enemies are already overextended and vulnerable is his specialty, and I find that in itself to be a relatively exciting role to fill in a map like DoE where opportunity is everything.
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Re: Kassar

Post by Pigger » Tue Jul 15, 2008 3:00 pm

Rising_Dusk wrote:In this light, he tanks because no one focuses their worst on him.
This just glared at me. That's completely anti-tanking if you put it like that, I mean, not to get into the whole role description of a tank, but by making it so he doesn't take and of the heavy shit from the enemies means that his allies will be taking it instead.

I had more to put in this to actually cover my views on Kassy, but I'm not the greatest of players so I don't feel I can put my input in where it can easily be shot down by those who play him expertly.

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Re: Kassar

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:17 pm

Actually, Pig, it really falls back to what you consider a tank. For instance, Dagurnott may have 2600 life, but generally he is the last target to be had. Does this make him a bad tank because many players will ignore him until he's the only one left? Or does this make him a phenomenal tank because when he does take the hits, he takes a ridiculous amount before going down?

For me, a tank is what he is capable of, not what he realistically may ever endure in a specific fight. Truth be told, the best tanks for me are those that get ignored because they tank so damned well. I find that Kassar fits into that role, albeit in an interesting and unconventional manner to say the least.
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Pigger
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Re: Kassar

Post by Pigger » Tue Jul 15, 2008 5:30 pm

Well, if we (I know I shouldn't) put it into comparison between those two then, both have the "last target standing" style tanking, Dag because he takes no damage and Kassy because he spits the damage back at you. But heres the problem, Dag has a huge AoE knockdown (assuming his allies are slinging conditions) whereas Kassy has to rely solely on trying to manuever around the battlefield, where a single cripple puts him out of it because then he can't get in close range for anything to KD, and all the enemy gets is a little sting on the cheek.

Kassy gets torn down from normal attacks, he relies on enemies to dish out the most of his damage, and requires perfect placement and timing to get off some nice chain KDs.

Whereas Dag has so much health that he almost HAS to be targetted, else his other two spells will tear everyone a new asshole. Dag can do his shit if the enemies target him or not. Kassar can get crippled once and that takes him out of a fight until he's the last one there. Or he gets muted and he can't do shit but suck it up and cry. (Yes, all other heroes get muted and just cry, but they can run away to a degree, Kassy's slow movement keeps him stuck.)

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Re: Kassar

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue Jul 15, 2008 6:14 pm

Pigger wrote:Well, if we (I know I shouldn't) put it into comparison between those two then, both have the "last target standing" style tanking, Dag because he takes no damage and Kassy because he spits the damage back at you. But heres the problem, Dag has a huge AoE knockdown (assuming his allies are slinging conditions) whereas Kassy has to rely solely on trying to manuever around the battlefield, where a single cripple puts him out of it because then he can't get in close range for anything to KD, and all the enemy gets is a little sting on the cheek.
Kassar is a lot more apt to take a hero from full to zero than Dag is, though. That his skills have shallower range is a necesity for the fact that they are inherently more reliable (And more devastating). You also cannot consider the skills alone (ie. Shockwave) because it's how the hero functions as a whole that matters. For instance, Kassar's knockdowns can complement eachother and give him a more reliable lockdown power (Plus infinite chase power over Dagurnott, that has no chase power) than Dag.
Pigger wrote:Kassy gets torn down from normal attacks, he relies on enemies to dish out the most of his damage, and requires perfect placement and timing to get off some nice chain KDs.
Well consider the reason why Kassar's ultimate is valuable in the first place. If you prevent a hero from using his AOE or skills because they live in fear of his ultimate, it is equally as valuable as the hit that the ultimate deals to enemies. I feel that inevitably, Kassar's value in combat is unquestionable -- Your point screams "He's harder to use so I'm complaining" to me. Besides, Dag gets a cooldown nerf on Shockwave of 50%.
Pigger wrote:Whereas Dag has so much health that he almost HAS to be targetted, else his other two spells will tear everyone a new asshole. Dag can do his shit if the enemies target him or not. Kassar can get crippled once and that takes him out of a fight until he's the last one there. Or he gets muted and he can't do shit but suck it up and cry. (Yes, all other heroes get muted and just cry, but they can run away to a degree, Kassy's slow movement keeps him stuck.)
I can guarantee you that if I were to buff Kassar's movement speed to 330 instead of 270 (Or even just up to 300), then I would have to nerf him severely in other ways in order to make him remotely fair. High-speed, low-power is not the way I want Kassar to be.
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Re: Kassar

Post by VZManticoran » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:23 pm

I simply think that Kassar needs a LITTLE bit, maybe 1-2 points, more base armor, and he'd be perfectly fine. As is, he's still perfectly playable and fun for me.
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Re: Kassar

Post by SetaSoujirou » Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:00 pm

That armor would be better on Dis.
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Re: Kassar

Post by GtGW » Wed Jul 16, 2008 8:15 am

Just one quick question for Dusk: Prevailing Winds does MAGICAL damage. Is that for balance or for the technical nature of the ability in the game?
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Re: Kassar

Post by Hell_Tempest » Wed Jul 16, 2008 11:17 am

God knows it would be imbalance as twink if it did physical. Fassat and winds would be GFG if it was physical.
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Re: Kassar

Post by Deschain » Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:19 pm

Hell_Tempest wrote:God knows it would be imbalance as fandangle if it did physical. Fassat and winds would be GFG if it was physical.
I didn't play DoE but why is physical damage > magical? My guess because of some item or something.

I thought physical is reduced against armor unlike magical
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Re: Kassar

Post by Crevax » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:25 pm

Yeah, and Fassat ruins.
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Re: Kassar

Post by SetaSoujirou » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:36 pm

Physical damage is reduced by armor, however ruin can easily be applied to counter that armor. Magick damage reduction is set as a static 20%, regardless of armor. (Sanctuary and the Magick carapace increase your magick damage reduction by 25%) Thus, physical damage is typically greater than magick damage. Not to mention ruin + Boot whores = about -20 to -40% physical damage. (You deal more damage)
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Re: Kassar

Post by Hell_Tempest » Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:55 pm

I meant that on Kassar it would be twinking rediculous. THe ruin from fassat would lower the enemy's armor, thus increasing the physical damage done.
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Re: Kassar

Post by Rising_Dusk » Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:56 pm

Both magickal and physical are good in their own rights in different situations. The nice thing is that you can't resist magickal damage by too much, regardless of your stats or levels, whereas you can reduce up to around 50% of physical with armor. Consequently, though, (And effectively a catalyst for the system) Ruin can be used to super-boost physical damage.
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Re: Kassar

Post by SetaSoujirou » Wed Jul 16, 2008 6:08 pm

Yeah, but you typically see boot-whores more than armor-whores, so in most cases (For Kassar atleast) physical damage is better. And who really gets the magick carapace?
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