Melee heroes and you

[Rising_Dusk]

I had removed the burn one once before, but everyone cried about it. Mixed signals makes for a confused Dusky, you know.

[Oxygen]

I had removed the burn one once before, but everyone cried about it. Mixed signals makes for a confused Dusky, you know.

Removing the burn would really hurt Fahren, Meridia, Arro, Dis ; removing the bleed would really hurt Rose, Vela a tad, as well as Stille. Those are still good, but since they're damage condition, perhaps grant them a bigger bonus ( bleed use to be 50% for a reason, right? ) and maybe 33% for burn.

[Rectifier]

How about bitchslapping all the meleeheroes by putting maim on it instead?

[UnholySouls]

The 3 fact items which gives increase/decrease bleed&burn truly aren't as useful as the items giving increase/decrease on cripple, maim or blind (rarely will the extra 1-3 secs of bleed kill the enemy, while that extra more hit on a ruined character probably will deal much more "efficient" damage. These items are only REALLY useful on Rose's ult / Fahren's flamesomething). Replacing them with creative melee-helper 8 fact items would probably be worth it.

On a side-note, I find it sad that both "non-based" merchants sell SUCH different stuff. The one around the Order's base is much more interesting than the one nearby the Bane's. Most of the time, using mules up to these shops will be dependant on which side you're on. Sometimes when I'm on the Bane I can never spend my factions simply because I don't have the time to travel to the far-merchant selling 8 fact items; While the order doesn't have this problem.

[Scarlet]

Oxy, are you serious? Do you really think removing the bleed item would hurt Rose and Stille? Honestly, I don't think I've ever seen the full duration for their bleeds be the kicker in deciding a hero dying or getting away. They're ridiculously long as is; I have yet to see anyone but Pigger get Petrified Heart in .09. As for Phoenix Stone, I really don't know, to be fair - I just put it in the same boat as Petrified 'cause of their extreme similarities.

[SetaSoujirou]

Lol, boots > petrified heart IMO. Stille doesn't need that bleed.

[GtGW]

Well considering each condition serves its own purpose, maybe the duration extend as you've mention that does NOT work with some items such as bleed and burn, should possibly AMPLIFY the damage per second it deals? Considering the slow trickle of health loss from Rose's ult of 8 hp a second can easily be countered by a potion, perhaps a redone version of a bleed item that increases the damage of bleed by 50% a second could make it of somewhat more value? 12 damage per second bleeds could potentially negate potions as intended for an ultimate.

More importantly it puts the value of the item on par of its other brethren (e.g knockdown and cripple extends). This is just a theory, so even though it might not seem good to put into practice, please give it some consideration. (Also this might remedy some issues with the likes of heroes like Dagurnott who benefits from conditions more than suffering by amplifying the EFFECT opposed to the duration.

[Oxygen]

Well considering each condition serves its own purpose, maybe the duration extend as you've mention that does NOT work with some items such as bleed and burn, should possibly AMPLIFY the damage per second it deals? Considering the slow trickle of health loss from Rose's ult of 8 hp a second can easily be countered by a potion, perhaps a redone version of a bleed item that increases the damage of bleed by 50% a second could make it of somewhat more value? 12 damage per second bleeds could potentially negate potions as intended for an ultimate.

More importantly it puts the value of the item on par of its other brethren (e.g knockdown and cripple extends). This is just a theory, so even though it might not seem good to put into practice, please give it some consideration. (Also this might remedy some issues with the likes of heroes like Dagurnott who benefits from conditions more than suffering by amplifying the EFFECT opposed to the duration.

This is actually a nice idea; increasing the damage done by those conditions versus increasing their duration. If we think about it, bleed and burn are all about damage, so why not increase that?

But I see everyone's point; I was thinking that we'd only get rid of them because they were "useless" which isn't the case at all, but it's for remplacing them with new melee items. That, I didn't realize, so zuma with me here.

With what would they be remplaced? Does anyone have any tangible & decent idea?

[Rising_Dusk]

I only have one idea, really, and I'm replacing Drakescale Armor with it anyways. What with this item upgrade thing too that I'd like to work in, I really can't think of any other glaring possibilities. I mean okay, sure, we could always package Imperfection as a new item and stick it with physical instead of magickal damage, but that's really not being very creative.

Also, I do not want to change the effects of conditions. Not only is it unwieldy (It's possible to do, don't get me wrong), but it's just impractical. I mean, if we can augment bleed and burn, why not augment cripple or maim or blind or ruin? I mean, it begs the question that conditions become something they're not, it basically asks to turn conditions into local rather than global buffs. That's a no-go by me.

[ReDSeX]

I don't know who made this item up but I saw an item that was +60 MS. Except every time you're attacked you get knocked down for X seconds.

THAT WOUDL'VE BEEN BITCHIN
HIlarious but imba as nutz.

[Rising_Dusk]

No one would use it, it'd be total self-stunlock. :p

[Daryll-The-Damned]

Gotta say though, if that new idea replacing Drakescale armor is the one above...I mean maybe melee heros need a buff, sure, but a 15% for all physical damage to stun for one second? Seems a tad...uhm...powerful.

Even with the tag of "suffering from a condition" that gives things like Rikter's Whirlwind and Atrius's Sandstorm perma-stun capability...

[VZManticoran]

Agreed. Can you imagine if you get caught with 2 slicers rotating around someone near you? With how fast they hit, you'd end up with an EASY permastun simply by getting in melee range with Parhelios.

[Oxygen]

Atrius hits fast as hell and yet still manages to fail to stunlock at sometimes. And it's 50%; 3.3 times as much? The 1 sec. makes worth for it.

[Deschain]

Is there an item that gives chance for physical damage to critical (like deal 50% bonus damage) if target is suffering from condition (without some self inflicting condition)?