Muniez

[Merlin]

Your missing my point... nobody will cast spells the'll just stand near the creeps with auto attack & watch them fight.

No, you'll go after the enemy heroes so they aren't gaining gold and XP by being near, and you'll be making sure that your creeps are winning so that you continue to receive gold and XP.

If last-shotting is so important, why don't you advocate that XP should only be obtainable if you last shot the way gold is?

[Fulla]

Well, because you'd end up with Heroes 10 levels higher.

Currently if you outplay your opponents, you just gain a 500 gold advantage, not much but still something significant to reward you.

[Merlin]

And what if your hero isn't very good at last-shotting creeps? Aurea is fantastic at it; Victor is quite terrible.

Victor is now rewarded for healing his creeps, because the opponent is prevented from getting that gold at that moment. If you press him, the opportunities to stay in range for gold collection become fewer.

[Cooldood]

Hopefully the last time I post again here, but just wanted to state again that this really isnt such a big issue
It takes a reasonable amount of skill to get that last hit in, but I mean... its dosent require that much skill... Just play enough and you'll unconciously hold alt all the time while staying behind your creeps/attacking at the right times and not getting hit.

We should seek Dusk's views on this

[vesuvan]

The biggest complaint I have is the furiously popular myth that last-hitting is required to add "skill" in the game. I'm going to be completely honest here, taking pride in the skill of last-hitting is pathetic. It's about as interesting as mastering the skill of blowing paint dry.

Last hitting in DoE is like carpentry. In carpentry, you need skills with math, logic, creativity, and patience. If you have completed your wooden work of art, and have some time before the deadline, with absolutely NOTHING else to do, it might be a good idea to blow on the paint to make it dry quicker.

DoE is the exact same way, just maybe after you are done pushing, sneaking, dodging, attacking, and finishing an intense team battle, you might have some time among the intense moments where trying to last hit a creep will yield a little benefit.

DotA, on the other hand, is like having a sport stadium with every seat sold, Each fan waving big foam hands screaming at the two teams of five players screaming "woohoo! blow that paint dry!"

This is why I support last hit creep systems, yet hate dota. Systems that give gold in an area from dead creeps are just attempts to fix gameplay that puts to much value in last hits in the first place.

[Rising_Dusk]

You know, it's funny you mention this.... Because I've had it changed to the experience-style of gold gain for months now.

[X] - Killing units now distributes gold to all nearby heroes to the kill

[Merlin]

Haha...

[Fulla]

Well I guess we could argue forever, so best to just see how it turns out.
I think its one of things that sound good on paper, but when you actually play it ingame it will turn out very weird.

It sounds like just a minor adjustment/improvement, but it will completely change the gameplay, the way you think the way you act everything.

===

Victor healing, they can still just retreat and let next wave or towers kill the creeps, you only delay them gaining bounty.

[Rising_Dusk]

Did I mention tower kills don't give gold? It's basically designed identically to experience, just you get golden, happy numbers. In this light, you can still deny people, just keep them on the ropes the whole time. I still remember the game where I was level 18 as Stille before any of the enemy's team was level 9... Man, that was some wicked shit.

[Merlin]

What is the current range you need to be within in order to get gold? About 800, same as XP?

[Rising_Dusk]

Exp is 1000, so is gold. This is larger than standard WC3, but a lot of fighting in DoE is done at long-range, so I felt it a positive decision.

[Fulla]

Oh right so...
If I force a push to his towers. If any of his towers kill my teams creep, nearby enemy Heroes do not get the Gold?

Then atleast theres some strategy & makes things interesting.
Could be done for experience as well, but that may be to harsh.

[Rising_Dusk]

It's been that way with experience since DoE was first released.. *Cough*

[2-P]

Ooooh that "At least one new post has been made to this topic. " thing is cool. Was just about to say the same. xD

[Cooldood]

Ok, sorry, dont wanna sound daft, but you get gold from just standing around? O_o