Are our standards too high?
Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:14 pm
For updating the map?
Maybe you don't listen to me at all across the forums, but the focus of 1.15 is improving those old heroes. You see me make topics like "Arro Kree" and "Caliga" and somehow don't catch onto the fact that I'm trying to bring some of those lackluster heroes up to par.Kurogamon wrote:It seems to me that the standard we hold any new heroes or ideas to, even outside considering them for adding to the map, is too high. I see some heroes in DoE that would not come close to standing up to the scrutiny we give new heroes. At the moment it's not the time to add new heroes, but there's no work on interesting skills beyond utterly balanced and interacting gameplay. If there's an unhealthy amount of focus on making everything interconnected, the game isn't as fun as it could be.
I don't know what the heck you're talking about. In my experience at this site, we've been focusing on themes, names, effects, etc. all combined. The reality is that you do need to provide a coherent theme, but you need to leave the special effects, icons, textures, etc. up to me and the art crew. We know how to make a hero fit a theme and make effects that fit. That is my job as mapmaker and has nothing to do with the community's suggestions. If you have a complicated visual mechanic you need to explain for a hero, then by all means, do it. Clarification is never turned down.Kurogamon wrote:I like DoE, it's good to have a system for interacting skills that put some emphasis on teamplay and opportunity instead of hitting a button regardless of situation (Like AoM). But it's getting to be too much srs bsns. What happened to themed heroes? It's just in the names and selected condition now, not the effects and visuals of the skills.
Just because people submit a bunch of stuff with fifty million condition interaction possibilities doesn't mean I endorse them. Actually, quite the opposite, I tell them when enough is too much and when nothing is too little. The reality is that condition interaction is the crux of the whole bloody map, so yeah, it better play a significant role in suggestions or gtfo.Kurogamon wrote:Finally, a trend I see is skills focusing too much on condition interaction. Twister is an excellent example for how this was avoided, but a lot of skills are just "Inflict X condition for Y seconds with Z prerequisite met and add condition O and do P and..." or variants and parts thereof.
You need to realize that not everyone is a good hero designer. It's actually very hard to merge simplicity with condition interaction and a proper theme to result in an awesome hero.Kurogamon wrote: If that's how things work, sure, the game is fun as it is. But why not some truly creative things?
Kurogamon wrote:Ideas:
-There's a jillion trees on the map, why not make use of them? For that matter, why not more terrain fun? Why do the lanes have to be totally clear?
-Break the symmetry between the computer sides some, I'm aware this is really, really hard to balance and bring about, but some thought on it would be better than leaving it totally alone.
-Too... Small. Not in the sense of size, but in the sense of scope and the feeling of a big game. It might not be DoE's place, but I liked those skills that made you say "WOW" the first time you saw them, instead of having to take a long time to appreciate them.
-More later, maybe.
What you mean to say is that there isn't enough focus on the type of entertainment that you like, and too much focus on the type of entertainment those like me garner from simplicity and fast-paced metagame-driven combat. I said it before in this post and I will say it again here; DoE may not be the AoS for you, and not because it's poorly made, but because it was designed to appeal to an audience that apparently does not include you. (It includes me, in case you were wondering)Kurogamon wrote:Too much fastidious focus on perfect, balanced gameplay and not enough on "dumb" entertainment value.