Positive Growth

[assassingao]

Item had much more role than in pre-1.08.

Therefore, getting items brings you much, much closer to victory than in pre-1.08, compared to do other things like hiring creeps, hiring repairer, stuff like that, when you can just own some towers and maybe heroes along with it, buy an item that completely boost your ability to make other team suffer defeat...

...compared to hire a dragon in each lane.

I do enjoy the items, don't get me wrong here, but I agree that this is turning into some kind of DotA, not Aeons of Strife.

The items are getting more and more attention, so much that there are Power Inverter, costing 8 factions, that allows you to use other items, previously unusable by the hero.

Probably adding in more options for the creeps would be helpful, anything to add their influence into the game more than items.

Towers could use some more health buffs. DoE is becoming KEKEKEZERGRUSH game (It either ends too fast or ends too slow), as opposed to offensive game.


Thrills from the old times seem to be going away, the ones that I rushed my arse to defend a base, and managed to do so just in time, when the barrack is burning, almost reduced to ashes with 300 HP left. The thrill that I need to defend the base, hire repairers to save it's arse from going away.

Now, it doesn't matter whether I do well or not, an item whoring hero will either kick my ass, or a bunch of hydras probably would.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the hero have less and less influence in the game, unless he has items or he is totally imbalanced.

Don't take it personally, though, just my thoughts on this one. Kaome pretty much said for me at the whole item ordeal.

[Oxygen]

I just think that some heroes are simply way more valuable than some other. I random in other aos; never doe. I'm too affraid of that chance where I might feel underpowered no matter what I try to do.

[Rising_Dusk]

I wish you'd tell me who those heroes are and give me actual case examples as to why you feel that way instead of just complain without any actual suggestions.

[assassingao]

Ztera and Victor, for me .

With Ztera, it's as if I was controlling two creeps, ready to be slaughtered. Ztera herself is weak. Zuma is strong enough.

The whole ordeal is, I was able to do NOTHING without Zuma. Not even firing arrows at the enemy helps anything at all, she doesn't synergize with other heroes without Zuma.

On top of that, they're too plain. I mean, we have Anick RAINING BLOOD. We have Rose SPRAYING GOD KNOWS HOW MANY ARROWS. We have Tornne SPREADING THE TAINT, just for the few of them.

And look at them.

*THUD!*
"So, what's next can you two do?"

I can't complain too much about Ztera, though, I know she's supposed to rely on Zuma by design. (But not becoming useless or helpless without him for that matter.) But I think she should be able to do something more than firing at enemies and casting spells, all of which requires Zuma to be there to work.

Ztera needs to be better and more awesome at this aspect. We can leave smacking up to Zuma since it's what he does since the beginning of DoE.


As for Victor...I don't know, his ult probably never works well without Martyr. And even so, we still have lots of AoE spells on the Bane that applies conditions every second, rendering anything inside useless.

Martyr needs to grant immunities to conditions, even just for a few seconds. And absolution aura needs rework as a whole, or maybe the hero as a whole.

He changed from kickass support into a fountain over the past changes, to pretty much sum it up.

Haven't played much of the Bane to say anything useful about it, so hope you don't mind.

[Rising_Dusk]

Z/Z is an amazing hero. Because they are difficult to use by design does not make them weak. Not at all. They have a chained 4 second stun and two heroes that can both shoot and smack enemies at the same time. Their attack DPS is rivaled on the order only by Rose with her ult on, and once you consider Rampage, Z/Z clearly outmatch her. Oh, and they get cripple. Suck on that, Rose.

Victor is so insanely imbalanced that I actually have to nerf him for 1.14. I have absolutely no idea how you can think he isn't good enough.

[assassingao]

Speaking of Rose.

She. Needs. A. Nerf.

Volley, in particular.


Dunno, maybe Z/Z doesn't seem to make sparks fly enough, and they're virtually useless against creeps, especially if you have to save "Zuma, Strike!" so you can hit an hero.

He should have a cleave or something while that skill is active, and it only goes off when he hits a hero, similar to how Sozen's Mirage was changed.



And a fountain is always useful, . He's so invincible, but he does nothing but heal. He used to be able to stop some push, the old "fist of the heavens" had the potential to do this. Now he heals until either he, or his friends die.

It's like he is the Paladin in OD in a sick, twisted way.

[Rising_Dusk]

Speaking of Rose.

She. Needs. A. Nerf.

Volley, in particular.

I don't quite know about that. The new volley is aimed now, meaning she can miss. That's way more fair than her previous skill that auto-hit. If you happen to be standing still long enough that Rose can get close with her ult on and Volley you in the face, you probably deserve the pain you get out of it.

She's certainly good, but I think she's probably on par with many of the Bane hero killers. More testing would be required I suppose, though in my experience thus far I don't see an issue.

Dunno, maybe Z/Z doesn't seem to make sparks fly enough, and they're virtually useless against creeps, especially if you have to save "Zuma, Strike!" so you can hit an hero.

Being amazing against creeps isn't a requirement for every hero, you know...

And a fountain is always useful, . He's so invincible, but he does nothing but heal. He used to be able to stop some push, the old "fist of the heavens" had the potential to do this. Now he heals until either he, or his friends die.

This, Gao, is called a role. Having one is a good thing.

[Freezern]

Victor's role used to be to make Kassar go machinegun-BOOM(BOOMBOOMBOOM!)
Oooh, those were the days of 1 second cooldown on Martyr... Now we can do a doubleboom if lucky...

But on a more serious note, Z/Z is almost OP in my experience.
Probably the most effective herokiller on Order, especially in a team situation.
I mean, two consecutive stuns and a cripple?
And when you first have that cripple applied, nothing stops Z/Z from reapplying the cripple over and over?
It's pretty nuts.
And the Zuma strike animation is plenty sparky for me.
I felt that the old Z/Z was strong enough, and now that they have cripple in addition.....

This is what I read in your post Assassingao: "I don't have enough micro to use two units, and I think the hero is lousy because I can't use it properly."
It's kinda like not using Rikter's sword, and then complaining about how you never do any dmg with him?
Or like failing to get burn onto more units with Blaze before using Feuer Frei and Flickerflame, and then say it's a shitty ultimate?
It's like expecting to pwn without using wards as Stille?
It's like thinking Arro should be able to kill by only using his passive?
It's like wishing Sozen had 1200 HP and 8 armor in addition to his manashield?

[Oxygen]

I wish you'd tell me who those heroes are and give me actual case examples as to why you feel that way instead of just complain without any actual suggestions.

I'm glad you asked. I just didn't have the time to do so, nor an incentive, but since you want to hear it, sure. It'll come.

[Rising_Dusk]

I once had an awesome use of Feuer Frei where I moved wrath from an ally back onto Exuro. He had no clue what happened and then Z/Z double-zuma-striked him to death. It was so boss.

[2-P]

It's like thinking Arro should be able to kill by only using his passive?

He can't?


So I wondering about Taint.
The cooldown decrease of Taint is important, got nothing against that. But I do believe that the difference of 3 seconds is a bit too large. It's not the 2 seconds CD at the end, but the high CD at the beginning that's bothering me. It makes the early-game with Tornne a bit dull, you know, it's always that strive for level 9 at the beginning.
Right now it seems like the player is punished at the beginning so that he's happy later on when Taint has a low CD. I'm not saying remove the CD decrease completely, just reduce it a little.... 2 seconds per level or so, every little bit helps. =P
Scaling the damage would be a fair way to compensate that.

What still boggles my mind is how Dis managed to avoid being nerfed within the last updates. He never seemed underpowered to me, just difficult to play. I've seen some crazy games where Dis annihilated pretty much everyone and that was before he was changed. I find that his buff was unnecessary.
And spawning his death waves while being in complete safety is lame. From my experience, it's not challenging to defend a base (or fight against him in general) against Dis, it's just lame.

[Rising_Dusk]

Scaling the damage would be a fair way to compensate that.

I like the healthy "ow" it has at all levels.

just reduce it a little.... 2 seconds per level or so

This is a reasonable request. I do agree that a 14s cooldown is a bit overkill at level 1.

I'd like to point out that despite the spell not getting any "better," I do increase the mana cost of Taint by 5 per level since Tornne's mana pool is fairly extensive at max level. (And 40 mana taint at max level virtually doesn't even tap his pool in the least) It's been this way for awhile, I just hope no one minds once I make its cooldown 10/8/6/4/2s.

What still boggles my mind is how Dis managed to avoid being nerfed within the last updates. He never seemed underpowered to me, just difficult to play. I've seen some crazy games where Dis annihilated pretty much everyone and that was before he was changed. I find that his buff was unnecessary.
And spawning his death waves while being in complete safety is lame. From my experience, it's not challenging to defend a base (or fight against him in general) against Dis, it's just lame.

This has all been addressed fairly effectively in 1.14, but I cannot release that until the end of the hero contest. (Which probably means I'll finish it today/friday at work and then do the coding over the weekend)

Code: Select all

[X] - Spitfire Elementals now last 12 seconds
[X] - Spitfire Elementals deal 40 damage on death at all levels
[X] - Spitfire Elementals burn for 3 seconds on death at all levels

That is the relevant excerpt from the 1.14 change log. That is a change from 15 second duration, 30/40/50 damage on death, and 4/5/6 seconds of burn.

[2-P]

I like the healthy "ow" it has at all levels.

True, didn't think about that.

I do increase the mana cost of Taint by 5 per level

Sounds fair, WoP is the only thing that really drains his mana right now.

And yay for Dis nerf. ^^

[assassingao]

This is what I read in your post Assassingao: "I don't have enough micro to use two units, and I think the hero is lousy because I can't use it properly."
It's kinda like not using Rikter's sword, and then complaining about how you never do any dmg with him?
Or like failing to get burn onto more units with Blaze before using Feuer Frei and Flickerflame, and then say it's a shitty ultimate?
It's like expecting to pwn without using wards as Stille?
It's like thinking Arro should be able to kill by only using his passive?
It's like wishing Sozen had 1200 HP and 8 armor in addition to his manashield?

I find that terribly offensive.

For I am one that buys Strength on Sozen.
For I am one that used to rely on heat on damage before the recent nerf.
And do not think that I'm a dumbfuck just because I can't play a certain hero properly, but I still can play some of them properly.
I was going to start about Feuer Frei, but this is pointless. There are many heroes that needs the change compared to this little ultimate.

Misinterpretation is fine. But this is just an insult.


Not that I'm going to be terribly helpful, but I was trying to help. And then you came and says BLABLABLAYOUSUCK.

At least state your reason properly, like Dusk did. Without the insults.


I will go away for a while to calm myself, I think.

[Rising_Dusk]

Yeah, no need to get all rough around the edges over this. Freezern should've been nicer and you shouldn't blow up in response. All is well; let us continue pondering on which heroes need reworking, why they need it, and how it should be done.