3 remaining conditions

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Medivh.
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3 remaining conditions

Post by Medivh. » Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:02 pm

The icons of conditions are used from Guild Wars, so there's 3 remaining.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Disease
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Poison
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weakness

For the sake of continuity, only 3 because the icons fit the visual iconing aspect of a condition.

I don't know about disease or poison, they can be totally different things than disease and poison.
But Weakness reminds me of Dusk's words two days ago on stat influenced stuff. I was thinking Weakness could reduce a hero's overall stats by a percentile or/and increase incoming magickal/physical damage.

Disease (or any other name, as in malady) could be the 3rd DoT that can spread. Maybe it can have a counter as in 10 stacks of disease would hurt more than one. Going in range of a diseased unit (close range) would increase your counter as long as you stay in range for x seconds...or something like that.

Poison I thought could reduce magickal damage/healing output, like spell power in WoW and drain your mana. A 4th DoT would be too much, and I don't know about MS reduction.


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AnemicRoyalty
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by AnemicRoyalty » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:08 pm

I doubt Dusk will add them simply because a) it's not good to overcomplicate the system and b) they don't really bring much to the game that isn't already present in the other conditions.

I guess the only condition that would fit in would be some kind of Magickal variant of Maim that reduces Magickal damage done or makes your spells cost more mana.

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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Rising_Dusk » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:23 pm

The conditions were not based strictly upon those in Guild Wars. Do note that I am an avid GWs player and I am completely aware of what their conditions are, but I don't really plan on adding them to the game. You'll notice the effects of the GWs conditions and the DoE conditions are not identical. I think the only ones that match exactly are Bleeding and Burning, and let's face it, those are the same everywhere. Now, I did use the open source GWs icons for conditions because of continuity, just to go ahead and put that out there.
AnemicRoyalty wrote:a) it's not good to overcomplicate the system and b) they don't really bring much to the game that isn't already present in the other conditions.
This is a good point as well.
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Medivh.
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Medivh. » Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:33 pm

With poison and disease, yeah, they can be thrown out, but how about Weakness, it can affect stats or reduce magical damage received (although if it's the latter, I would rather see the skull than the anorexic guy, since magic = brain and all). You have Ruin for physical damage so..

Anyway, I just wondered if you had any idea about using those last 3 icons, so this was more of a question, and I was looking for something to do. And I remembered talkage about stats.


Edit : spells deal enough damage as it is, so I could see major Overpower if weakness could increase magic damage received.
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Kurogamon » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:13 pm

Ruin reduces general armor which also protects against spell damage. Ruin actually does increase spell damage taken, it's just less noticeable.

Unless I'm wrong?

Stat reduction for Weakness would be quite cool, though.
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by iblablaman » Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:55 pm

Kuro, HERO armor reduces spell by 20%, always, it never changes. PHYSICAL damage(like atrius' sandstorm and his other one, geno's sunder, etc) is increased because it is reduced by the armor's reduction %
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:15 pm

Armor in general reduces physical damage and attack damage. This means that ruin also increases magickal damage only in the case that it came from an attack and not a spell.
Kurogamon wrote:Stat reduction for Weakness would be quite cool, though.
No it wouldn't, since then it would be a condition that only worked on heroes..
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Medivh.
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Medivh. » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:06 pm

There's hero physical and hero magickal attacks. Both of them, I remember from when I played around the WE for a bit, can be modified via constants and given different effective values before diminishing returns.

Typical example would be piercing attacks dealing 200% damage to small type armor that applies before diminishing returns (armor value).

You can have the same for spells, but spells aren't affected by armor value. Depending on how you modify your armor classes, a certain armor type can only get 80% damage from spells, but some spells can have their damage type modified.


Magickal hero attack type isn't a spell, it's an attack type of it's own, like a Siege or Piercing attack, so it's affected by armor value.

I don't know if it is possible to affect the damage output of all spells with a custom stat, not like a spell would cause 4x STR damage to an enemy, but a condition that would reduce the effect of spells that are cast.
Glyphe, for example, affected by weakness, would have his Storm Bolt damage reduced by X%. That was the idea in my mind, if wanting to use one of those last icons.

Spell damage amplification would be nasty, the spells deal enough damage as it is, lol, meh. Like I said, I was wondering what would happen with the last 3 icons, but except this, I don't see anything else, pretty much everything has been done.
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:39 pm

It's okay to modify damage output of anything. I am in full control of all damage dealt in DoE. Stop thinking about this mechanically or like it is standard Wc3 because it's not. If I want an armor type to reduce spells or whatever I so please, then it will. (Quite easily too, mind you)

Spell damage amplification is possible, though, and easy to do as well. Adding a new condition for it would be strange, though, there are already enough conditions in existence. If anything, I'd probably modify an older condition to have it. Probably one of the unloved ones -- Maim, if anything.
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Oxygen » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:41 pm

Rising_Dusk concerning weakness wrote: No it wouldn't, since then it would be a condition that only worked on heroes..
Why does it matter if a condition only works on heroes? Mute technically does about nothing to creeps but prevent bloodlust and heals, and in a very trivial fashion.

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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:47 pm

It still works on creeps, but I never said it had to be terribly useful against them.
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Medivh.
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Medivh. » Sun Jun 21, 2009 2:55 pm

Maim could work, I looked at heroes earlier, and I barely saw anyone with Maim. I even felt doing a hero with Maim as theme (using those examples in the accepted forums, synergy and all), but I don't have any fancy spell idea...I understood there's even a space where I saw theorycrafting about spells only so...
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Kurogamon » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:29 pm

Weakness could simply reduce max health and mana by a percentage.
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Jun 21, 2009 5:01 pm

That could work, but I'm not sure I really like the idea of hacking off max life/mana without the red numbers (-X) you get with reduction of some tangible quantity.
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Re: 3 remaining conditions

Post by Oxygen » Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:44 pm

Rising_Dusk wrote:That could work, but I'm not sure I really like the idea of hacking off max life/mana without the red numbers (-X) you get with reduction of some tangible quantity.
Since it's a condition, ( see deep wound from GW, for instance, or trauma or whatever it could just lower max health or mana by a flat percentage, like 20% or so.

I could see abilities such as Sharpen Edge, Devour or a double hit from Storm Bolt cause it.

Although I'd really like to see a condition that does something with mana, perhaps something along the lines of "Shock" where the unit loses a % of its mana every second.

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