v1.11b Discussion

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Deschain
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Deschain » Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:44 am

Rising_Dusk wrote:
Deschain wrote:Why is blind the only condition that is completely negated?
Because it's special and I wanted it that way.
Yeah but that renders skills that depend on blind... somewhat pointless, no?

I mean yeah it is a great combo with boots, but seriously I don't see why you would make blind the most crippled condition gameplay-wise, other than whim.
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Rising_Dusk
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue Feb 10, 2009 1:12 pm

Deschain wrote:Yeah but that renders skills that depend on blind... somewhat pointless, no?
No skills are rendered useless by it, OFlare still deals damage and A2A still can make Atrius invis with creeps. It could've been bleed or burn or mute or whatever, but I chose blind because it's the most convenient for it and exactly because it doesn't make any skills fully useless. If anything, this makes maim that much more valuable. (Convenient that two things work against the same types of heroes - another reason I chose blind)

It's also not the most crippled. Most players won't see more than 16F in a game unless they are totally wtfobliterating people all over the place. If they spend 8 of that 16 on an Optic Ammy, that's their choice, but in most cases they won't. Some players swing that way, though, and more power to them for it. It won't make them invulnerable or imbalanced, but it will help them enough in the right places.
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Kurogamon
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Kurogamon » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:11 pm

I think it's the one condition that's worth negating, but is not overpowered by being negated. For example, Cripple and Maim both destroy combat ability (Actually you could have disabled Maim but it's pretty underused.) and if one was immune to Cripple it would be pretty imba. The damage ones, Burn and Bleed, really aren't worth negating. People do die from them, but not that often to warrant that much Faction. Ruin doesn't disable in any major way and is too undernoticed to be worth an item. Uh, did I forget any... Right, Knockdown and Stun, which are basically the same condition and not used by enough heroes to be worth it. An item that makes you immune to it would be a lifesaver though...
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Phox » Tue Feb 10, 2009 9:15 pm

Kurogamon wrote:I think it's the one condition that's worth negating, but is not overpowered by being negated. For example, Cripple and Maim both destroy combat ability (Actually you could have disabled Maim but it's pretty underused.) and if one was immune to Cripple it would be pretty imba. The damage ones, Burn and Bleed, really aren't worth negating. People do die from them, but not that often to warrant that much Faction. Ruin doesn't disable in any major way and is too undernoticed to be worth an item. Uh, did I forget any... Right, Knockdown and Stun, which are basically the same condition and not used by enough heroes to be worth it. An item that makes you immune to it would be a lifesaver though...
You forgot Mute. But negating that would be a bit overpowered. But I would totally buy an item to negate Knockdown/Stun. Which would also be pretty overpowered.

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Merlin
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Merlin » Wed Feb 11, 2009 10:30 am

Nice.

I haven't had a chance to play multiplayer yet, but the changes are all excellent from what I can tell in single player. I'll let you know what I think after I've played a few pubs and in-houses.

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Nowaki
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Nowaki » Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:12 pm

Kurogamon wrote:I think it's [blind] the one condition that's worth negating, but is not overpowered by being negated.
That depends exclusively which hero you are talking about... Blind plays a much more important role against Anick, Rikter, Jhita and Atrius than it does against Maltheron, for example.
Personally I'd be against any form of condition immunity via items, but I'm biased since I love Aurea and I hate when people get Optic Amulet, and well, I'm sure Dusk knows better. :<

I played a couple of 1.11 games and I liked alot of the changes, and some of the new items are very interesting, but I believe some of them may need some work (mainly Spectral Shard and Bonecrusher?).

There was this game I played Arró and I got myself a Spectral Shard. 40dps burn with Scorched Earth was decimating entire creep waves with a single cast, and I dont think it was fair... It was an 'only mid game', and only by doing a few Scorched Earth it would ensure the Bane wouldnt be able to push against us. We stayed like 3/4 of the game right before their base. Got a replay too that I can post later, but I'm at work now.
Some people also mentioned an issue with Rose and the 45x20 bleed with that item, so it got me thinking: now that bleed/burn were 'buffed' by already negating potions, is Spectral Shard really necessary?

About Dis, well I think Dusk already got that covered :p Maybe you could consider making Heartburn spawn Spitfires in a slower rate? It's kinda lame how people can just stay out of combat sending neverending waves of exploding Spitfires all by themselves, damaging tower/buildings and your creep waves without even being in combat.

Alot of people complaining about the new Skittel ultimate, but I believe it will be fine enough once Miasma is corrected using that stun item/mana burning one. But I really can't say much because I havent seen much of the new Skittel yet...

Thats my 2 cents of feedback about 1.11, I really liked this release and the possibilities of new item builds with all the new stuff. So yeah, good job Dusk.


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PS: Miasma and Janise looks awesomee.
PS2: Loved the Collapse range buff.
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assassingao
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by assassingao » Wed Feb 11, 2009 4:29 pm

Tunnel is the next best thing that fits Skittel.

Pitfall + Tunnel was very awesome, but Miasma + Webstrider + Tunnel was even more Awesome!


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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by HyperActive » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:26 pm

Speaking of "Roses are Red", why don't you use the "Death and Decay" icon for it?
You use it for Meridia's "Graverobber", but you could find better, something like :
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Rising_Dusk
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Rising_Dusk » Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:46 pm

I use Death and Decay's icon for Gravenova, there is no skill called Graverobber. Additionally, I don't use it for Roses are Red because the rose in that icon is clearly dead. :p
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Kurogamon
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Kurogamon » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:19 pm

I remember this one icon with a rose in it in AoM 3.7F, I think, someone introduced that to me, infinitely better than the current AoM. Apparently Vile buffs his favorites.

Can someone explain Skittel's new stuff to me? I don't have access to WC3 at the moment.
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Loki » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:22 pm

Nowaki wrote:but I believe some of them may need some work (mainly Spectral Shard and Bonecrusher?).
Spectral Shard is so perfect, I really can't say anything bad about it. Also, bonecrusher need some fixin' 50% chance to proc? nothx, make it 15% or something.
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Black_Heart » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:26 pm

Kurogamon wrote:Can someone explain Skittel's new stuff to me? I don't have access to WC3 at the moment.
Corrosion (his nuke) was changed to Miasma. Miasma works like Corrosion except that instead of exploding for instant damage and Ruin it explodes into a cloud that deals constant damage over time and causes Ruin. It also has a larger AoE, making it more useful against creeps.

Mutilation (his ult) was replaced with Tunnel, which is a 3000 range blink that can also be used while burrowed.

And yes, I agree with Loki, Bonecrusher needs a bit less chance to proc. I think anything above 33% is a bit much, considering that the cripple lasts for 4 seconds (more than enough time to hit them 2/3 times at least, reapplying it.)
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Kurogamon » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:35 pm

So now Jhita + Skittel = pwn?
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Vinnam
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Vinnam » Wed Feb 11, 2009 7:41 pm

Atrius + Bonecrusher = LOL amounts of stunnage xD
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Oxygen
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Re: v1.11 Discussion

Post by Oxygen » Wed Feb 11, 2009 9:25 pm

Vinnam wrote:Atrius + Bonecrusher = LOL amounts of stunnage xD
Bonecrusher doesn't stun; it cripples. ( although, yes, the cripple helps for getting stuns, but you do have two other means of inflicting conditions* ) Try dragonfang.
Loki wrote:Also, bonecrusher need some fixin' 50% chance to proc? nothx, make it 15% or something.
I'd say 33%. 15% is worth a stun or a 400% crit, so definitely not just that. Besides, it's only against moving targets, keep that in mind.
Kurogamon wrote: I think, someone introduced that to me, infinitely better than the current AoM. Apparently Vile buffs his favorites.
If only I hadn't handled the most recent versions of aom, I wouldn't be feeling so hostile towards you right now. Let's leave it there.

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