Tob O beta is out

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Deschain
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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Deschain » Mon May 17, 2010 3:21 am

Funny, that's pretty my thoughts, thought by thought. I think that I just got spoiled by DoE :P

If I understand correctly, the map ain't anymore finished than the latest version of ToB N lying around.
BTW Dusky, any idea how did he do the thing with different cooldowns, IIRC Gone with the wind has different cooldown depending on spell power.
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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Fledermaus » Mon May 17, 2010 6:24 am

Gone With the Wind will just cooldown early if you have more spell power. The original plan was to have lots of different versions of the ability, each with a different cooldown so that the actual cooldown would match the grey thingy that goes round the ability but since the widgetizer can't process abilities with more than 4 levels, that idea was scrapped. It just resets the cooldown after the time. Same way as Dusk makes Distruction have no cooldown when Dis is burning I assume (Remove then re-Add the ability).

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Deschain
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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Deschain » Mon May 17, 2010 9:04 am

I was sure you guys discovered some bug that would allow your spells to cooldown faster.
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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Fledermaus » Mon May 17, 2010 10:08 am

Nope. Just refresh after the shorter time. Would be different if blizzard allowed more than 4 levels in a slk =/

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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Rising_Dusk » Mon May 17, 2010 11:41 am

All of that work could be done manually, but that'd be a royal pain in the ass.
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Oxygen
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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Oxygen » Mon May 17, 2010 12:06 pm

Am I alone that felt like the disabling was just too much?

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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Rising_Dusk » Mon May 17, 2010 1:06 pm

Oh yeah, there is way too much stun in the map at large and for way too long a period of time. Perhaps this is how they planned to justify things like the +300 life orbs, though, by just making you unable to do anything for so long a period that you still die. Who knows, though.
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Deschain
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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Deschain » Mon May 17, 2010 2:03 pm

Fledermaus wrote:Nope. Just refresh after the shorter time. Would be different if blizzard allowed more than 4 levels in a slk =/
Or you know dynamic skill properties. But fled I must ask one more thing, if you know, how was the custom-selection done so only the owning player could see it?

@ Dusk: From what I recall, the current version is the beta being little to no privately tested.
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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Fledermaus » Mon May 17, 2010 10:03 pm

Deschain wrote:But fled I must ask one more thing, if you know, how was the custom-selection done so only the owning player could see it?
Do you mean on Dual Nature? I think it's a unit (or doodad) created then hidden and locally unhidden along with local colour changed to the valid units in range.


As for the massive amount of stuns, really guys? You should know it's a really really early beta and shit is not balanced yet.

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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Rising_Dusk » Mon May 17, 2010 10:40 pm

Fledermaus wrote:As for the massive amount of stuns, really guys? You should know it's a really really early beta and shit is not balanced yet.
I was referring specifically to the number of stuns in general, not their durations necessarily. Of all of the heroes out right now, only 4 of the 12 heroes don't have a stunning ability, and 3 of those 4 have crippling debuffs they can inflict on enemies. If the other heroes eventually get added in as they were originally planned, we'll still be getting more stuns on top of that. I feel like that's a bit much, personally, especially when you consider ganking and other PvP strategies that get employed.

For the record, I don't particularly mind the exorbitant numbers on items, as I trust they'll get sorted out eventually.
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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Fledermaus » Mon May 17, 2010 11:34 pm

When we were testing we barely did any balance testing at all because that wasn't as big a concern for us. Obviously it will become one as we start trying to perfect O.

Some other stuff to consider:

There are only 12 heroes atm (out of the currently planned 18) and the fact that the current ones just seem to have all the stuns.

There were some other design choices that at the time, didn't seem like a bad idea but now with the perspective of actually playing lots of competitive games.

There is also the fact that all the stuns (except for Moove! and Kuzdu) have the stun duration as the scaling part of the spell so with Spell Power or Blood Bath, you can get even stronger stuns. This is related to the balance/design choices and will no doubt see some changes.



These things all combined together, do lead to a big problem. However all this stuff can be fixed. We just got to the point where we could release something playable and so we did.

Balance aside, I think the game looks amazing and a class above anything else on battle.net (in terms of visuals). I'm sorry if this offends you Dusk (you should know by now that's not my intention). The visual style of the game is truly unique and I personally love it. I think it is a major part of any game and that people are focusing on too much on the balance at the moment.

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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue May 18, 2010 1:33 am

Yes, all of anything can be fixed by definition, I don't doubt that nor do I think anyone was claiming otherwise. All we can really comment on is what's there, not what might be.
Fledermaus wrote:Balance aside, I think the game looks amazing and a class above anything else on battle.net (in terms of visuals). I'm sorry if this offends you Dusk (you should know by now that's not my intention). The visual style of the game is truly unique and I personally love it.
And it is; truly, it is. The map really is beyond anything else that's out or ever will come out, both mechanically and aesthetically.
Fledermaus wrote:I think it is a major part of any game and that people are focusing on too much on the balance at the moment.
Technically, that's the entire point of a beta at all, to polish and balance and test what's there. The art's amazing, it's not going to change and get worse, so there's really no reason to comment on it other than by saying "Sweet."
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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Oxygen
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Re: Tob O beta is out

Post by Oxygen » Tue May 18, 2010 12:52 pm

I'm still really, really saddened by the major lack of aiming / predicting / juking that you're able to perform in that map.

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