The Scout Update
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- CAPS LOCK INCARNATE
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Re: The Scout Update
The biggest issue with the Sandman that it completely broke away from the melee unlockable pattern that was established by Valve in the previous 3 updates. Whilst the melee unlocks have all been pretty much seen as upgrades but at the same time very slight upgrades in the long run due to the drawbacks they bring during their usage. In theory I don't believe that it makes the red team or blue team stronger on cp maps but it does change the whole game balance in the sense that the medic becomes more and more like a glorified dispenser. However dealing with sentry guns with a team that truly works together didn't become any worse because Bonk! allows a scout to tank the sentry fire.
In the end I think Sandman should be scrapped and something else should be put in its place. Also Bonk! needs to be buffed because the uber's place isn't challenged anymore by the Sandman.
In the end I think Sandman should be scrapped and something else should be put in its place. Also Bonk! needs to be buffed because the uber's place isn't challenged anymore by the Sandman.
- Cold Phoenix
- Keeper of the Keys
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Re: The Scout Update
Bonk! is can be very good for countering ubers. Drink it up, go run and block the uber pair's movement. Works even better in close hallways where they can't maneuver past you.
For the Sandman, stun just won't fit in this game. Sure it takes skill to hit with the baseballs, but once you do your opponent's skill is taken out of the equation while you do what you want with them. I'd be fine with it if it was something like a 90% slowdown as long as your opponent could still fire back at you. Also it shouldn't affect ubers, it's just silly. As a stun it is free kill a good 3/4 of the time, especially on weaker classes.
For the Sandman, stun just won't fit in this game. Sure it takes skill to hit with the baseballs, but once you do your opponent's skill is taken out of the equation while you do what you want with them. I'd be fine with it if it was something like a 90% slowdown as long as your opponent could still fire back at you. Also it shouldn't affect ubers, it's just silly. As a stun it is free kill a good 3/4 of the time, especially on weaker classes.
Your move.
- Loki
- Gypsy
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Re: The Scout Update
And FAN takes away what? 25% movement speed? Yet people get by since the retardation of stun. Not a fair trade-off.The Sandman is what removes the double jump yes?
Other than the fact that it stuns? It's a freaking FPS even you should have understood the stupidity of the Sandman.Cold Phoenix wrote:What do you mean by the Sandman is retarded?
You even said it yourself lol
Yes, it's retarded.Cold Phoenix wrote:Sandman: Overpowered, but stun is going to be overpowered in an fps no matter what you do to it.
Let's do what comes naturally
I'll be waiting in Haven.
Re: The Scout Update
Let me get this straight:
You can auto-kill by meleeing them in the back?
You can juggle people with rockets?
You can practically insta-kill with sticky-bombs?
You can become completely invincible for 10 seconds?
You can make an auto-aim bot that shoots 4 rockets?
Holy shit none of that should be in an FPS.
You can auto-kill by meleeing them in the back?
You can juggle people with rockets?
You can practically insta-kill with sticky-bombs?
You can become completely invincible for 10 seconds?
You can make an auto-aim bot that shoots 4 rockets?
Holy shit none of that should be in an FPS.
- Loki
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Re: The Scout Update
Ahh, the flaws of criticals.. Unless you are talking about the spy.You can auto-kill by meleeing them in the back?
I have never seen an instance where that has happened unless it was an aimbot which of course is a bannable offense.You can juggle people with rockets?
If you are stupid enough to not remove the already placed stickies, or you just stand still and hope that whatever weapon your using would kill the demoman.You can practically insta-kill with sticky-bombs?
In most cases, you are using it to charge into a base, destroy the defense and allow your team to get through. But half the time, the uber fails and wasted.You can become completely invincible for 10 seconds?
Read the first comment. I don't even know why you would bring up hacks in the first place. Might as well call out Wc3 and go "You can make a maphack that allows you to see all the resources and strategies your enemies are making."You can make an auto-aim bot that shoots 4 rockets?
But we all know that that's not allowed. Amirite?
Let's do what comes naturally
I'll be waiting in Haven.
Re: The Scout Update
He's talking about the sentry.
"Within every world, there are cultures, within every culture, there are groups, within every group, there are leaders. These leaders are not truly chosen, they are destined, it is their fate to lead, and it is this fate that drives them. Souls yearn to be driven, they in themselves can not direct, however, these leaders are predetermined, by whatever means, to guide the wills and mend the errors of these wandering souls. A forest, cold, cured, flawless, meticulous, and fearful, what drives it, what keeps the balance? The inner beings of all the co-existant creatures swarm together, and every one is guided by another, in more a cycle, then a hierarchy. The eyes of a forest are always watching and guiding, yet the sun never sets on the forest, and it never shall." ~ The Chaos Theory
Re: The Scout Update
Yes, I'm talking about the spy.Ahh, the flaws of criticals.. Unless you are talking about the spy.You can auto-kill by meleeing them in the back?
Then you've never played against a good soldier. If a soldier know what he's doing he can shoot the ground and throw you into the air. Since you're falling, he knows exactly where you're going to land and shoots the ground just as you're about to touch the ground, throwing you up into the air and starting the whole process over.I have never seen an instance where that has happened unless it was an aimbot which of course is a bannable offense.You can juggle people with rockets?
Almost as crippling as a stun-lock. It's disorienting, damage heavy, and for the most cases, much LONGER than sandman's stun.
It can end in a kill pretty quick. S
Shouldn't be in an FPS.
What if there's like 297987432 billion sticky's on a choke point? Can't even notice.If you are stupid enough to not remove the already placed stickies, or you just stand still and hope that whatever weapon your using would kill the demoman.You can practically insta-kill with sticky-bombs?
Shouldn't be in an FPS.
The initial chaos of a shit-ton of scouts is coming close to an end. It's kinda rare to see more than 2 scouts in a game now. If you're playing with a half-way decent team, the sandman shouldn't be able to do all that much damage if you're sticking close to your allys.In most cases, you are using it to charge into a base, destroy the defense and allow your team to get through. But half the time, the uber fails and wasted.You can become completely invincible for 10 seconds?
1v1
Sandman Scout > Heavy
2v2
2 Sandman scouts < 2 heavys
# vs. 3
# Sandman scouts < 3 anything
Nowadays, the scenario with the sandman looks like this:
Early half of the game a scout stuns an enemy and kills them. 1 kill for the scout! Wewt.
Rest of the game, team gets smart and sticks together. Greatest counter to sandman is teamwork.
Most sandman attempts end in failure after one kill.
[/quote]Read the first comment. I don't even know why you would bring up hacks in the first place. Might as well call out Wc3 and go "You can make a maphack that allows you to see all the resources and strategies your enemies are making."You can make an auto-aim bot that shoots 4 rockets?
But we all know that that's not allowed. Amirite?
I'm talking about Engineer's sentry.
Shouldn't be in an FPS.
I don't know why you're crying so much. The sandman is fine. It needs some tweaking, but the overall concept and design makes for a great trade-off. The lack of double jump can easily spell disaster for a scout. With the scout's unlocks, his overrall lack of mobility takes away from the scout's greatest weapon: his speed. The sandman takes away his ability to double jump, and to compensate, they added the FaN. Adds a great extra jump, but also makes you move 25% slower.
I'd get into this more but I have school.
The sandman and the rest of the scout's unlocks make for an even trade-off.
Sandman, although a great nub-killing weapon, is an even weapon. Well, in design at least. Keep the stun but tweak it I say.
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- CAPS LOCK INCARNATE
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Re: The Scout Update
Redsex you are looking at balance in the most rudimentary way. Balance isn't just x class vs. y class, it's the balance between the classes and their roles. Sure the unlockables were to make the classes more mailable but it wasn't to change the game to a point to warp balance entirely. This hurts the game two times as much when it's the medic's role that is hurt because why should I be a medic when most of the time a crap scout can just counter me?
Your basis for saying the scout update is fine and dandy is that it hinders the scout's play in comparison to what he could do initially but the who reason for unlocks isn't to keep a class playing exactly as it was before thus the argument that using the unlocks doesn't let you do x, y, z like before is like complaining that you can't go invulnerable with the kritzkreig.
Your basis for saying the scout update is fine and dandy is that it hinders the scout's play in comparison to what he could do initially but the who reason for unlocks isn't to keep a class playing exactly as it was before thus the argument that using the unlocks doesn't let you do x, y, z like before is like complaining that you can't go invulnerable with the kritzkreig.
- Loki
- Gypsy
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Re: The Scout Update
Come talk to the players at Towelies or JLM. Also, the bounce from rocket explosion is not even high unless you are a crouch jump spammer but most players use that bounce as their advantage and shoot while in the air.ReDSeX wrote:Then you've never played against a good soldier. If a soldier know what he's doing he can shoot the ground and throw you into the air. Since you're falling, he knows exactly where you're going to land and shoots the ground just as you're about to touch the ground, throwing you up into the air and starting the whole process over.
I don't even know why you try to make it sound like Sandman when all there is WHACK-LOLSTUN-/gangrape
That's like saying there are players on or near a chokepoint and you couldn't see them, that shouldn't be in an FPS?ReDSeX wrote:What if there's like 297987432 billion sticky's on a choke point? Can't even notice.
Then you and your allies must suck at taking opportunities. No offense.ReDSeX wrote:the sandman shouldn't be able to do all that much damage if you're sticking close to your allys.
My bad :xReDSeX wrote:I'm talking about Engineer's sentry.
But.. I don't see a problem with Sentries in an FPS like TF2 which is different from most FPS games, you can easily get around them and use your timing to pick them off with quick sticky drops or rocket's splash. Or just barrel roll through them with an uber.
Finally, your last paragraph offends me that you are going to resort that argument where you think I'm crying rather as opposed trying to build up my argument, you can be better than that. You bring out points in TF2 that shouldn't be in a FPS, but then you get all lax on the stun on the Sandman? I don't understand at all.
Let's do what comes naturally
I'll be waiting in Haven.
- Cold Phoenix
- Keeper of the Keys
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- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:32 am
Re: The Scout Update
Are Towlies and JLM servers? If so you should post the IP's.
The frequently used "Use teamwork so Sandman won't kill you" argument is flawed. Guess what, the Scout has a team too. Since the update there have been many times where I have worked with a clanmate when they stunned a player and I took the few seconds of opportunity to headshot them. Teamwork goes both ways so you can't use it as a point.
Your sticky argument buries itself.
For sentries, I agree with you to a certain extent.
You seem to be ignoring the point by saying other random things don't fit.
The frequently used "Use teamwork so Sandman won't kill you" argument is flawed. Guess what, the Scout has a team too. Since the update there have been many times where I have worked with a clanmate when they stunned a player and I took the few seconds of opportunity to headshot them. Teamwork goes both ways so you can't use it as a point.
Your sticky argument buries itself.
For sentries, I agree with you to a certain extent.
You seem to be ignoring the point by saying other random things don't fit.
Your move.
- Loki
- Gypsy
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Re: The Scout Update
Just poke me a message on Steam and I'll give you the IPs, don't trust some of the lurkers that come in here for paranoid reasons.
Let's do what comes naturally
I'll be waiting in Haven.
Re: The Scout Update
I resent that remark fully Loki. You can trust me, despite my lurker-dom.
I'm sorry, were you saying something?