On the Topic of Homosexuality

[VZBushkiller20]

I'm Jewish...and just to answer vesu's...

A religious man lives in a tall two story house. One day, it begins to rain heavily and everything starts to flood. At the very first moments of the flood, the man is standing on his porch. A man with a bicycle rides up.

"Come with me, the city's flooding and we have to get out. I have an extra seat on my bike, but we have to go now."

The religious man replies, "No, God will save me." and the man on the bike rides away.

Not that much later, the flood waters have risen and a man in a car comes and motions for the religious man to join him.

"The water's still rising. If you don't leave now, you're going to die. Join us to the highland."

"No, God will save me." And the car drove away.

Later, the flood waters had risen to the second story of the man's house and he was sitting by the window waiting for God. A man in a boat road up.

"Come with me if you want to live! The water's not stopping!"

"No, God will save me." And the boat sailed away.

The water was so high now that the man was forced to sit on the roof of his house. A helicopter hovered over him and a ladder dropped down.

"This is your last chance sir, climb up or you will drown."

"No, God will save me." And the helicopter flew away.

The man died, and when he went to heaven he confronted god, clearly upset. "God, why didn't you save me?! I sat there waiting for you to save me and you never came!"

God looks at the man and says, "I tried four times! First I sent a bicycle, then a car, then a boat, then a helicopter! What more did you want?"

~~~~~~~

Oh, and you were thinking of Job

[VZhitogoroshi]

Also, are we debating whether it should be legal or just showing opinion? Cause if a religion wants to irrationally hate a type of people based on a book thousands of years old, hey, more power to them. But if ANYONE thinks that a country should fall in line with your beliefs I will come to your house and beat you. Just saying.

Repost cause I'm curious. Dogma is created to drag you in vague circles and I can guarantee this "debate" will go nowhere. People aren't going to change their religious views no matter how hard you argue. :p
So I'd just like to make sure that no one is letting their religion affect actions towards gay people (be it legislation to ban gay marriage or general rudeness towards them). If you want your beliefs to negatively affect others, please include your address and write a will ASAP.

[Vchip]

Okay im going to get personal. Im gay. You dont understand how hard I tried to like females it hurt how much I tried. One day I couldent stand it anymore and droped the act. No one saw it comming ( I act very straight for a homosexual) and some of my friends that were guys stoped talking to me. Thats one thing that really pisses me off. When a straight man thinks that a homosexual man just wants to hit on them. Dont flatter yourself thinking that. Thats why most of my straight guy friends stoped talking to me they thought I was trying to get with them or somthing. I know nothing about the sceintific side of this argument or the religous side. I personaly belive that I was born this way. I mean why the hell would I choose to be steryotyped against and hated?

[Steve]

Uh, wow, didn't see THAT coming, V...

[Deschain]

No one saw it comming ( I act very straight for a homosexual) and some of my friends that were guys stoped talking to me. Thats one thing that really pisses me off.

I know nothing about the sceintific side of this argument or the religous side. I personaly belive that I was born this way. I mean why the hell would I choose to be steryotyped against and hated?

V there is another cause of your grief. As the saying goes "You are with whom you are". If your friends associate with you they could end up being labeled gay as well, which often happens. In other words they want to save themselves the trouble of explaining their sexual orientation to outsiders.

Three things make you gay:
1. Brain patterns
2. Hormonal disorder
3. Environmental causes

I believe I never took a book from my friend. Just yesterday I found it at the bottom of the drawer. Funny.

Believing and facts are two separate things.
Are you good at 3-d shooters Vchip? Can you remember details better? Is your finger on your right (or left if you are left handed) hand faster at repeatadely smashing keyboard than your female friends? What is the length ration between your index and ring finger?
Take a test at BBC and tell me the results http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/humanbody/ ... user.shtml
Don't cheat and don't worry it really ain't that definite.

Welcome to end of genetically redundant side Vchip.

[TheIrishPatriot]

Don't worry V, I still think you're cool! I dunno what I'd do if one of my close friends was gay, I wouldn't distance myself totally and be a jerk.

[Vchip]

Well thank you Irish.
And damnit Deschain I cant find a ruler for part 4. The parts that I have taken though dont make much sense to me. I mean I dont think this quiz can really determine if someone is gay or not. Im not sure though.
*goes back to trying to find a ruler*

[vesuvan]

God looks at the man and says, "I tried four times! First I sent a bicycle, then a car, then a boat, then a helicopter! What more did you want?"

That was quite a story. I wonder what exactly you are trying to say though. The idea of an interventionist deity is very problematic, and so is one that plays with the will and actions of human beings.

If you were to become seriously ill, would you pray and become one with doG, or would you try to communicate with your doctor?

I've heard people say science is a gift from doG, what of the scientists? Is beer proof that doG wants us to be happy, or is it proof that brewers do? If somebody saves your life, it's not a miracle, it's kindness. and if you survive a fire because firemen came to your rescue, then doG has had nothing to do with it.

Seriously vesu, you're attitude is as annoying as Irish's

This seems to be a hit and run, could you clarify what you mean here? I would hate to leave this discussion knowing I did something wrong, but not what it is.

And I would be patient with TIP. Even the lucid smith could not keep his head straight in the land of doublethink, and its clear to me he hasn't fully internalized the prejudices of his environment.

And one note: Keeping on to the Torah is not the equivalent of being proud of the holocaust. The holocaust was pretty much a thing of evil, there were no "redeeming points". But the Torah is not all genocide and blood, so the comparison doesn't fit

A serial killer goes on trial. The judge says that he is being tried for dozens of murders and asks him how he pleads.

"guilty your honor, the evidence is indisputable. But look at it this way, I used their blood to paint positive messages on the city walls! Look at orion road, on the street I painted "it's nice to give". Isn't that a valuable contribution? There was a very smart man that was my neighbor, and he inspired everybody with his sophisticated study of how human beings can better treat each other on complex levels. I killed that man, and painted with his blood "Don't steal from people!". "

Is that a parallel of your argument, or would you like to correct me?

Socrates sure knew how to debate.

Ok vesu could you explain what did you meant by ants and (especially) wolves?

Most wolves and ants do not reproduce. When a member of either species reproduces, it is an event or caste specified to an individual. Its also possible that a species can pass on its genes without reproducing. These are complex genetic systems, but the core of what I am saying is that evolution has produced homosexuals. We do not know for sure if the number of homosexuals is increasing or decreasing, but its there, and doesn't show any signs of being weeded out of the gene pool.What this means is anybody's guess though.

[TheIrishPatriot]

And I would be patient with TIP. Even the lucid smith could not keep his head straight in the land of doublethink, and its clear to me he hasn't fully internalized the prejudices of his environment.

Could be.

Ok vesu could you explain what did you meant by ants and (especially) wolves?

Most wolves and ants do not reproduce. When a member of either species reproduces, it is an event or caste specified to an individual. Its also possible that a species can pass on its genes without reproducing. These are complex genetic systems, but the core of what I am saying is that evolution has produced homosexuals. We do not know for sure if the number of homosexuals is increasing or decreasing, but its there, and doesn't show any signs of being weeded out of the gene pool.What this means is anybody's guess though.

Yar, I don't think it's increasing, more people are simply coming out about it. And I don't think it's decreasing much either.

Is the "Lucid smith" a folk tale? I've never heard of it.

[Deschain]

Ok vesu could you explain what did you meant by ants and (especially) wolves?

Most wolves and ants do not reproduce. When a member of either species reproduces, it is an event or caste specified to an individual. Its also possible that a species can pass on its genes without reproducing. These are complex genetic systems, but the core of what I am saying is that evolution has produced homosexuals. We do not know for sure if the number of homosexuals is increasing or decreasing, but its there, and doesn't show any signs of being weeded out of the gene pool.What this means is anybody's guess though.

But humans to my knowledge mostly reproduce in a different sort manner than wolves, ants etc. Also homosexual behavior isn't IMO a regular behavior that average people express. I consider it deviant while named examples its a standardized pattern of behavior.

If evolution has produced cancer does it mean it shouldn't be prevented or treated? I mean cancer could represent another form of number reduction agens (affecting only elderly and weaker, leaving a healthy average people in their best years).

[Vchip]

Deschain....just be quiet. I dont think me being happy should be prevented. If you try and change how someone is tha-thats just wrong

[Deschain]

Deschain....just be quiet. I dont think me being happy should be prevented. If you try and change how someone is tha-thats just wrong

I see it as a symptom of something more larger... I ain't stoping ya or changing ya V. I don't think there should be anything done. Seeing how cure is worse than the illness.

I just sublimate my radical thoughts into something...

[TheIrishPatriot]

Well thank you Irish.
And damnit Deschain I cant find a ruler for part 4. The parts that I have taken though dont make much sense to me. I mean I dont think this quiz can really determine if someone is gay or not. Im not sure though.
*goes back to trying to find a ruler*

Lol, what did you expect me to do? *Shun* ?

[VZBushkiller20]

Vesu, your in-your-face atheist attitude is what annoyed me. I agree with you that the Bible has no place in judicial and legislative decisions, but this isn't the topic for it. Also, I was seriously annoyed for what I presumed was modern liberal antisemitism with Jews and Israel being always wrong and Arabs being rational people.

And the point of the story is that you shouldn't look for a spectacular miracle. Sometimes God works in obvious ways, through everyday people.

[Deschain]

Well thank you Irish.
And damnit Deschain I cant find a ruler for part 4. The parts that I have taken though don't make much sense to me. I mean I dont think this quiz can really determine if someone is gay or not. I'm not sure though.
*goes back to trying to find a ruler*

It doesn't. It determines whether your brain is more male or female (hand test determines how much testosterone you got while you were a baby - he is the most accurate if you can measure it correctly).

But blast it that last test is bugged. Last time I scored 11 of 12. And few months ago (when I did my army registration test) my 3d coordination was superb. Now 5 of 12 :/

Just for the record I don't doubt you are gay... Not many people would brandish with such a thing... And I'm not shunning you.