On the Topic of Homosexuality

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Deschain
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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by Deschain » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:00 pm

vesuvan wrote:
Generate smallest functional units of any organisms. If they express that form of behavior it is regular if not it's not regular.
This is an absolutely ridiculous definition of "regular". Reducto ad absurdum; bees that would live in very small colonies without growing in size and with sufficient resources to do so would be considered in one sense of the word, irregular.

Despite this, it is not the definition of "irregular" that is the issue. The issue is if homosexuality is a disease or if it is a crime. You have presented no evidence that it is either.
Certain species of bees couldn't live without a queen or drones or workers. Take ideal conditions (enough food, no dangering predators or diseases). A hive consisted of only drones or wookers would die having no means to reproduce. Queens couldn't be able to create fertile offsprings of themselves.

I don't think it is a disease or crime. It's a weakness. But I have no certain evidence that would sustain or dismiss my opinion.

Though Irish you could show him lesbian porn. If he shows signs of arousal he could be what he claims.
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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by TheIrishPatriot » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:25 pm

Because we all know I have a massive collection of lesbian porn, hidden inside the gun case.

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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by Deschain » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:52 pm

Nah, because he can't jack off on guys.

What you keep in your gun case is your own buisness :P
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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by Hydrolisk » Tue Feb 26, 2008 12:43 am

NOTICE: This post isn't very good, and I regret making it. I would rather have you ignore this, but for the sake of archiving everything, I'm not going to downright delete it.

I hate homosexuality. Not because of some damned religion, or because of the media. Simply because... who needs it. It's useless. As in, VERY useless. As in, it's nature's flaw. I mean, homosexuality doesn't cause reproduction! That same love can be found in a [insert opposite sex] (for myself, woman). Not as in, "women are objects of sex and pointless, stupid love," but merely as in a relationship type of way.
Score so far: Homosexuality: 1 (This is default for "love" and emotions) Heterosexuality: 2 (We also get the reproductive process).
Anyways, if there's a rise in any sort of homosexuality, it'll be because of today's stupid-ass ignorant kiddie's who think it's all "OMFG [insert hyperbole] YEAH I LIEK N TOP OF JOO GURL" and "FAPFAP[semi-censored]FAPFAP." Then, the little dumb stupid kiddie that is sensible enough not to participate in rape become dumb and stupid by going "Wow, I can't do that. I'm a loser. I'm gonna go with my loser friends and fap with them, and then go emo and homo."
Then I crash through a wall, take a cleaver and turn them into corned beef. Which I of course, throw into the ocean for the sea to consume. Just kidding.

But seriously, there's no point in supporting homosexuality, besides proving you're not insensitive, and then you really are if you try.

The best solution is: ignore the homosexual facet, and just be friends. But don't degrade yourself to nature's flaw: if you can prevent forest fires, you can surely prevent THIS. Eventually (or hopefully at least) homosexuality will simply die out. Maybe, the media can stomp it out (as in, discourage more support for homosexuality). As long as you don't fall prey, the homo's (as in, short form, not insulting) will simply attrition themselves out of existence.

Summary: I wish homosexuality didn't/never/will never exist.
Last edited by Hydrolisk on Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by Flotsam » Tue Feb 26, 2008 11:53 am

Wow, Hydro. Calm down. When you say it is "nature's flaw" and "useless" I do not think you realize how many things in humanity are "useless" or "flaws". What if somebody fell in love with a person that could not reproduce due to something like cancer, or a birth defect? Should they not be allowed together, and not be supported just because they can't reproduce? Is EVERY relationship on the planet supposed to be about reproduction?

And could you please clarify your argument? I honestly have no idea what you are saying for half of your post or more.

I showed your post to a friend and we discussed it. This is some of what he had to say:

---

He seems to be suggesting that intelligent people will turn to homosexuality because straight people are stupid?

I don't understand how this is an antihomosexual argument

Well, since the only coherent point he made is that homosexuality doesn't lead to reproduction, you should suggest that we should ban all forms of birth control as unnatural and useless

In addition, since we are so clearly controlled by nature's demand to reproduce, rape should no longer be illegal, abortions should be outlawed, and every man and woman should be forced to have sex twice daily

Also, because of this genetic drive to reproduce that controls our thoughts, we should also abolish useless societal constructs that don't facilitate sex, which would include all the arts and all the sciences besides biology (which would be devoted to making reproduction more likely)

While we're at it, why is the poster even wasting his time on the internet? Life revolves around reproduction, so he should be going out and getting laid right now. Humans don't have free will or other interests, we only have a drive to reproduce. Those other things are illusions

Every religion limiting sex in any form, which is all of them, should be abolished as against nature

---
End friend's counter point

A final note from myself. I don't think the whole "omg homo" argument should even matter. If somebody loves the other sex, great for them, if they fall in love with somebody of the same sex, who cares?

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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by Hydrolisk » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:00 pm

I don't think you got the point that I was hyperboling. AKA, exaggerating for effect.

There are many human flaws, however I just don't think homosexuality has any sort of benefit to society (or nature). Sure, it makes humanity a little more diverse (and perverse), but seriously. Homosexuality has little reason to exist. It should just be allowed to die peacefully without gaining any more converts (same goes for Scientology).
On a personal/scientific level, I just think that homosexuality is downright a freak of nature. As in, a mutilation or mutation of the mind or hormones. I (as in, ME) would classify it as a mental disorder, because humanity could probably go with a lot less trouble without homosexuality (homosexual people won't get killed, we wouldn't have to waste our miserably short lives debating over it, etc. etc.).
On a personal/ethic level, I think that I would have to agree with a lot of religious (mostly Christian and Catholic in this case) people; God didn't want humans to be like this, therefore created the women and such and such or along the lines of that. I (being as I hate religion) take this as "nature made a mistake doing this." It's like babies being born with disease, missing organs, and the such. An unnatural occurrence due to the fact that nothing is completely certain. Since we think albino's are unnatural because they are rare, then the same goes for homosexuality (only that it's at a mental/sexual state).
On a personal/personal level, I simply hate homosexuality because I think they're a disgrace to the human society and a blasphemy against what nature intended. What sort of species that has two sexes within it would want to perish because of homosexual individuals? Not only that, but homosexuality is (again) a mistake of nature, just as albino's and six-fingered people are. Homosexuality can't really be considered the beginning's of a new race/species, since they can't reproduce with their own kind. Six-fingered humans might become homo sapien sapien hexadactyly, a sub-species/species possibly by continuously mating with other six-fingered humans (this is more support for why scientifically, homosexuality isn't natural).

Rape is something that I find revolting. No noble person would do that, and it's too bad the criminals can't be executed.

People should NOT mindlessly reproduce because if the children were never to be cared for, we would have a race of nothing. We'd be dead, and the children too if we can't educate them to at least a degree of survivability. Anyways, our species is already starting to overpopulate the Earth because we consume too many resources. We can't even process/efficiently use them (this is subject to relativity though).

If we followed what your friend thought what he thought that I thought was limitless sex and reproduction, humanity would lose one of the things that makes human. Civilization wouldn't exist, and we would all reduce ourselves to dirt and soil. We have reasoning and logic, which is why we don't senselessly and idiotically have sex and reproduce all of the time. I doubt that anybody would actually want that, and if they did, they were probably thinking they're last thoughts before jumping over a cliff (as in, suicide).

It's okay that he thought what he thought (what I thought), because if I were a random person looking at that post, I'd be like, "Wow. Idiot." Anyways, I'm modest and very strict on this sort of thing, so I'd say about around 1.5 children per couple on average to sustain the human race (can't remember the exact value), or maybe even 2 because of death through famine, crime, accidents, suicide, disease, etc.

I don't think life is revolved around reproduction. I think it revolves around surviving and existing for as long as possible (not to mention helping your own race to establish higher survivability). This includes proper resource management, since without resources, we'd all die, and everything else that can relate in that sense to survival.

I also don't care if homosexuals love each other. I'm only seeing that other people are making a mountain out of a molehill. If we left homosexuals alone, they'd leave us alone. Then, there'd be the occasional homosexual, but at least we can spare each other of bashing and flaming and killing each other. We're all human, anyways. It's just that the things that make us human sometimes gets in the way of peace.

BTW: Sorry, it's kinda hard to exercise self-control when you expect yourself to be asleep in you bed.
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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by Flotsam » Tue Feb 26, 2008 7:57 pm

I agree that people should leave each other alone about it. However, I do not believe it would "go away" if not talked about. There are people who are born homosexual. Also, what about animals that regularly engage in homosexual behavior? Bonobo monkeys, for example. Are their entire species blasphemous against what nature intended? On a tangent, what about cars? Are they as nature intended? What about the houses we live in? Cities? Are these things "as nature intended"? I'd argue they are FAR less natural then a male being attracted to males, or female attracted to females.

You could make the argument that bisexuality is better then hetero, or homosexuality. For if you truly love all people, of both sexes, you would likely do more to help them all survive. There was a quote I read about that once .. if only I could remember who it was from.

The odds of either of us convincing the other to change their views are almost assuredly nil, so I do not want to turn this into a flame war or something. I am trying to understand what you think, and pointing out what I view as flaws in your logic. Also, if people just don't like homosexuals (find it disgusting or something), that is fine. Just don't pull the shit people try (banning homosexuals from the military, beating them up, destroying people just for liking the same sex, etc etc etc)

Edit: Also, yea. Things would be more peaceful if everyone was the same (no homosexuals, etc). But that just is not going to happen, so we need to deal with what we have.

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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by TheIrishPatriot » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:10 pm

Flotsam wrote:There are people who are born homosexual.
No studies prove it, last I checked.
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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by shalnath » Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:20 pm

As Flotsam said, let's not turn this into a flame war.
And Hydro, cool it down and lay off the insults or I will ban you. Your lack of consideration towards the other humans on this forum is revolting.
"Within every world, there are cultures, within every culture, there are groups, within every group, there are leaders. These leaders are not truly chosen, they are destined, it is their fate to lead, and it is this fate that drives them. Souls yearn to be driven, they in themselves can not direct, however, these leaders are predetermined, by whatever means, to guide the wills and mend the errors of these wandering souls. A forest, cold, cured, flawless, meticulous, and fearful, what drives it, what keeps the balance? The inner beings of all the co-existant creatures swarm together, and every one is guided by another, in more a cycle, then a hierarchy. The eyes of a forest are always watching and guiding, yet the sun never sets on the forest, and it never shall." ~ The Chaos Theory

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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by Hydrolisk » Wed Feb 27, 2008 1:10 am

I've been asked to give my views and reasons, and I did.
Obviously, I have not expressed myself clearly.

I don't mean I hate homosexual people. I mean, I hate homosexuality itself.
I see my post where it appears to be insulting.
I don't mean to insult, either. But it does seem to insult [Storm] (if it doesn't, then I'm glad you're not insulted). If you are insulted, then I would apologize.
But I don't think I'm being inconsiderate to the other humans of this forum. The OP has asked for my views and reasons, and I have given them.
In fact, I simply find it hard for you to have the backing to ban me (alhough, this isn't a challenge of your authority, Storm. Just that I feel as if I've been singled out). Power and authority can be corruptive.

Argh, thread derailing!

Anyways...
Flotsam, whites and blacks have ignored each other's racial colours, and although the skin colours didn't go away, we've been getting along much better. The same principle should be able to solve the issue of homosexuality.
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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by Flotsam » Wed Feb 27, 2008 3:13 am

Sorry for the slight derailment. Lets take this to PMs or check me out on Battle.net if you wish the continue the conversation, Hydro. I wasn't insulted by your post. Mostly because I didn't understand what you were trying to say, and couldn't believe it really was how I interpreted it. Try to express yourself more clearly, and in a less aggravated manner.

Anyway, yea, it would be nice if people ignored it, but not totally. If 100% ignored then I believe that would be bad (some kid doesn't know what they are feeling, hear other kids making fun of it, etc). I'm not exactly sure what should be done, however, I do not believe the issue could or should achieve that status quite yet. I believe that is partially due to the whole "marriage" thing. I'm not a huge fan of it, and I don't care a huge amount about the tax breaks (so don't give me the bull about "omg they don't reproduce, they shouldn't get tax breaks!"), but damn it, I'd want to be able to visit my guy in the hospital if he was hurt or dieing. If it came down to it, I'd want him to be able to tell the doctors to pull the plug if I was in a permanent vegetative state, or some equal condition.

I'm not asking for "special rights" as I've seen claimed by some people (on TV, not here), I'm not asking to be better then anyone. I'm asking to be able to show my commitment to somebody and be able to see them if they are hurt, make decisions if they are "gone" etc. Also, I'd be curious what arguments exist against homosexuality that do not involve religion (as those are the primary ones). I think I'm going to cut my mini rant short for now.. It is starting to get under my skin a bit and I need to calm down a little. (Breath Flot, breath..)

Edit: Irish, sorry, but I am going to ignore that post here.. if you want to talk about it, we can start another thread or you can pm me. I feel that if I begin to comment on what you said the thread would end up razed by the flames.

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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by Daryll-The-Damned » Wed Feb 27, 2008 12:26 pm

Now now, I'm sure we can all be mature here. While I may not agree with Hydra's views, that doesn't mean that we have the right to tell him that our's are better. I'm also pretty sure the sheer arrangement of his post is what caused alot of the tension. It was a tad difficult to read and understand what exactly he was saying at some parts.

When I created this topic I knew that not everyone could possibly have the same idealistic view I do, but I accepted that fact, because I wanted to know all of the opinions of the people here.

If insults get out of hand, then the topic will be closed and that will be that. Otherwise, there is no reason to discontinue this debate.
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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by TheIrishPatriot » Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:08 pm

Aye, and actually Flotsam, the idea IS to debate about this stuff, and as my comment was perfectly in line, on-topic, etc...I say we debate about it. No need for another thread, this IS the thread for it. So, do go on.
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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by Flotsam » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:09 pm

Ok, then. The first counter to your post was "There are no studies that prove the existence of God." Rather inflammatory, I know. That is why I didn't really want to bring it up. And, if some (not all) people are not born homosexual, then why did I find myself staring at guys as a child but finding females to generally not be as attractive? I'm not at my sharpest at the moment, so when I think of a more eloquent way to put what I wish to convey, I'll post again.

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Re: On the Topic of Homosexuality

Post by TheIrishPatriot » Wed Feb 27, 2008 5:35 pm

Nice link: http://www.geocities.com/midimagic@sbcg ... ohered.htm
Ok, there are no studies that prove God's existence. But disproving or proving God is more left to theology. "If God was real, why does he allow suffering." "Why do the innocent die?" and such. Don't compare a religious/philosophical issue with a social and hereditary issue.

You're not getting my point. I'm saying, nobody is born homosexual (Of course, I'm not going to walk up to a gay man and say THIS WAS YOUR CHOICE, YOU WEREN'T BORN THIS WAY. Simple politeness). Don't reduce my points to half-points. And I don't know why you stared at guys as a child. I assume when you say 'child', you mean prepubescent.
I'm not at my sharpest at the moment
GOD Flotsam, why ya gotta be like that? :P
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