Deschain wrote:I'm not changing my view. Women usually are fertile.
Broomstick argument is actually a form of ship of Teseus. See Trigger's broom for clarification. Also I'm not gonna dive into semantics
As I suspected, you consider it is a different broom.
To you when man changes his gender he becomes a woman.
To me when man changes his gender he just looks like a woman but he is still a man even if I don't know it.
When you change brooms head into a mop it is still a broom with a mops head. For all intents and purposes it looks like a mop but that doesn't make it any less of a broom with a mops head.
I'm more interested in the Ship of Theseus being noted here. I think the more logical side of the argument can stem when we take an example entirely unrelated to human anatomy. Consider teleportation. The concept of teleportation stems from destroying matter in one space and assembling new
matter in a different location with an identical structure. Assuming the transmutation is perfect and no flaws or differences can be noted between the two states of that person (the created one and the destroyed one), then you must ask yourself:
Is it the same person or someone entirely new?
Furthermore, Jericho raises an even more interesting point. He raises the tin man paradox, a variant of the ship of Theseus. Imagine the following case: a human lumberjack has a cursed axe that chops off his body parts. Everytime a part is removed, though, a smith creates and immediately attaches a mechanical replacement to the lumberjack. Furthermore, let us complicate the system and make the assertion that the male lumberjack does not have genitalia created for his metallic counterpart. The lumberjack's conscience is perfectly preserved in the new mechanical body of his.
Is the tin man still the same person as the lumberjack? Or does the notion that he has different parts change his ability to be the same person?
This is all a complication of identity. In order to furcate the situation more, we would then need to define as objectively as possible what makes up a person. Is it a consciousness? Is it a physical state of being? Or is it a mesh of the two? The problem to answering this question is that it is impossible to do so objectively, as there is no objective basis upon which to build one side of the argument over the other. That is part of what makes this kind of discussion futile, as it is rooted innately inside subjectivity, the domain of opinion.
End Objective Analysis
Enter Subjective Thoughts
Personally, I think that changing what you are made of or changing what you look like does not change who you are, but it does change what you are. In this sense, a male completely replacing his body with that of a female's would become a female only in form, not in mentality. The argument for these homosexuals, however, is that (in the case of a male) they are a female
in a male's body, and are thus trying to change themselves to have a body that matches. Does that legitimately make them a female? I'd say probably not with our current technology, since the best can be achieved is a partial conversion and creating the physical apparition of femaleness. We cannot wholly convert a male to a female perfectly, and thus the transgender is born - one who is a mesh of male and female parts. (Like a cyborg, virtually)
I think in this case, the transgenders may have the mind of a female (as they claim), but have a split-physical form between that of a male and a female. Ultimately, I agree with Plat in saying that people are entitled to do whatever makes them happy and more comfortable with themselves. If being a hybrid is how someone achieves that, I've no right to make a claim against them for it. (I, however, reserve every right to be uncomfortable myself around them) At some point in the future, a perfect male-to-female conversion (and vice versa) may exist.
In that case, if a person can perfectly convert their physical form from male to female, it would not make another man "gay" to be attracted to that once-man, despite knowing the past circumstances. I cannot lie that it must be slightly discomforting to know that the person had to have such an operation in the first place, though. Honestly, I find attraction to the hybrid gender of human abominable. I wouldn't mind it at all (despite the previously noted discomfort) if the process were perfect, but it's not. Not at all. Not even close