AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

A place to talk about serious "real life" stuff without having to place it in between a demand by Blankie for food and Logue's latest almost-pr0n thread.

Getting shot against AH1N1?

Yes, absolutely
4
33%
No way
6
50%
Don't know
1
8%
Already got it!
1
8%
 
Total votes: 12

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Rising_Dusk » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:49 am

I hope you know that I'm not talking about flu vaccinations when I say that. I'm talking about the ones people usually get when they are born, like polio, smallpox, measles, etc. Those things can make you literally grow up stupider, and if given at later points in life can cause lasting growth problems.

Flu vaccines just piss me off for reasons I spelled out above.
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Deschain
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Deschain » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:11 am

VZhitogoroshi wrote:Yeah but the flu's entire thing is mutating significantly! Kind of the same reason we can't vaccinate for HIV or cancer.
That sentence is so wrong I can't even begin to speak of it... Seriously cancer?! WTF... That's like saying HIV is caused by bacteria.

Vaccinations aren't a waste of money if the lethality of the virus is greater and its mutating factors are less pronounced, like the H1N1 variant. We can thank our lucky star it hasn't mutated into something far worse like the Spanish flu did.

Look at it like this, whether an immunity upgrade (vaccine) is worthwhile is your own decision; but in majority of cases it is an upgrade (it rarely doesn't work and backfires almost never). By vaccinating against H1N1 you could increase your chance of surviving future H1N1-strains that are far deadlier (for example survivors of Russian pandemics were mostly immune to Spanish flu).

http://www.newscientist.com/special/swi ... -your-life
And, yeah I believe some fear mongering scientific news rather than "common man" sense.

Bottom line do what you want; If you are an adult then vaccination is mostly your decision. God knows I'll take it if it is available and I can afford it (which is pretty likely due to free public health care).
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Oxygen
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Oxygen » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:38 am

I'll stick to what I told my mom, as she was being a overly worried: Even with AIDS, my immune system is stronger than anyone's; I'M OXYGEN AFTER ALL!

In all seriousness, I said that if our town and nearby environment (which is about 150,000 people) suffered 100 casualties, I'd take the shot.

I don't think I will. I just really hope there won't be an outbreak before christmas; I really want to complete my semester without the college shutting down, or whatever may happen.

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Deschain
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Deschain » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:26 am

You keep telling that to yourself...

For what is worth the media has overblown the problem but the problems isn't as trivial as it seems.
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VZhitogoroshi
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by VZhitogoroshi » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:46 pm

Rising_Dusk wrote:I hope you know that I'm not talking about flu vaccinations when I say that. I'm talking about the ones people usually get when they are born, like polio, smallpox, measles, etc. Those things can make you literally grow up stupider, and if given at later points in life can cause lasting growth problems.
Wanna know what else can cause lasting growth problems? Polio. :p

And Des, chill, it was a figure of speech. Cancer and HIV are un-vaccine-able diseases, and the ineffectiveness of a flu vaccine is somewhat related to factors found in those two ailments, so the comparison was worth making. I'm not seriously saying that a virus, bacteria, and failure in cell division are the same thing.

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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Crevax » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:10 pm

VZhitogoroshi wrote:And Des, chill, it was a figure of speech. Cancer and HIV are un-vaccine-able diseases, and the ineffectiveness of a flu vaccine is somewhat related to factors found in those two ailments, so the comparison was worth making. I'm not seriously saying that a virus, bacteria, and failure in cell division are the same thing.
The factors for AIDS and cancer aren't even close to that of the flu. Because of the nature of cancer (uncontrollable growth of cells), the immune system normally cannot detect that something is wrong with the body, because cancer cells appear nearly identical to a normal, healthy cell. HIV(Human immunodeficiency virus)/AIDS(acquired immunodeficiency syndrome) cannot be vaccinated because HIV attacks the immune system, weakening it and making the body more vulnerable to other diseases. AIDS doesn't kill directly, it just makes it easier for something like the flu or a cold to kill you. The mutation of a strain has nothing to do with either of the two.
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Deschain
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Deschain » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:42 pm

VZhitogoroshi wrote:
Rising_Dusk wrote:I hope you know that I'm not talking about flu vaccinations when I say that. I'm talking about the ones people usually get when they are born, like polio, smallpox, measles, etc. Those things can make you literally grow up stupider, and if given at later points in life can cause lasting growth problems.
Wanna know what else can cause lasting growth problems? Polio. :p

And Des, chill, it was a figure of speech. Cancer and HIV are un-vaccine-able diseases, and the ineffectiveness of a flu vaccine is somewhat related to factors found in those two ailments, so the comparison was worth making. I'm not seriously saying that a virus, bacteria, and failure in cell division are the same thing.
Okay, I overreacted but seriously, cancer had no place in that sentence. It was a logical fallacy. In other words you can't vaccine for cancer because it isn't caused by a virus/bacteria usually. Same way you can get vaccinated for Alzheimer.
You could get some viral chromosome changing cures but those wouldn't be considered a vaccine.

Oh yeah my sister had a smallpox infection. It was really serious. She survived but the disease left a hematome in her head which pushed her brain causing brain damage. And yet Dusk speaks that vaccines making you stupider...

Btw Crev you are somewhat wrong about AIDS, technically you could make a vaccine for the virus that causes AIDS but the problem is that AIDS mutates so fast that it is impossible to design a vaccine which isn't outdated by the time it is made. AIDS is so mutaterific that each time you are infected you create a whole new strain of the virus unlike flu which has few strains in constant circulation.
There is hope that AIDS vaccine or cure will be found if they target the common protein in all AIDS strains. Or if they just gather all AIDS infected people and in return for a lifetime free AIDS treatment make them stay in one place until they die.
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Merlin
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Merlin » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:27 pm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19614825

The anti-immunization stuff are things that Creationists say. Think about that.

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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by paper tree » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:53 pm

Merlin wrote:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19614825

The anti-immunization stuff are things that Creationists say. Think about that.
see I am a creationist and i believe that immunizations are very important. in fact many believe that it is good, the only vaccine that would even has a reason to go against would be the HPV.(I personally don't agree with this upcoming statement) but they say because you vaccinate a teen for this STD, it removes some of the risk of premarital sex. I'm fine with atheists/agnostics wanting to debate about creationism and if God exists, but at least get the facts straight.

Also you can't form a vaccine for cancer because it has the "don't eat me" receptor on the cancerous stem cells.(i feel like i'm having to explain this a second time...) so now scientists are working on a way to create a drug that binds to these receptors removing the protective shield that the cancer cells have. therefore, removing the base of the cancer greatly increases the success rate of chemo/radiation.

now onto aids. because humans are 99.9% genetically the same, aids can infect many people. the way it works is that in most humans they have 2 receptors that sit side by side on the outer edge of lymphocytes. the aids virus fits snugly into these receptors(both at the same time). now the people that genetically immune to this virus have a condition that removes 1 of these receptors. thus the AIDs virus cannot attach to the cell. this disorder doesn't do any harm to the human what-so-ever. this discovery lead to the creation of a drug that binds to this "useless" receptor effectively blocking the aids virus and allowing most people with AIDS to lead normal lives...the just have to take the medication a lot. now the new cure that are working on is not making a vaccine for the virus, but changing the genetics of a human. this is very feasible due to the fact that gene therapy for red-green color blindness has a lifetime effect. so by injecting a virus which turns off the receptor making gene in the infected person prevents the virus from attaching and curing the illness. and for those of you who say "well the virus will just mutate and get around this" it cannot mutate because it isn't replicating. the virus cannot change because it has no host cell to reproduce in.

genetics = ftw

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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by vesuvan » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:22 pm

Nobody has discussed the relationship between MMR vaccines and autism, Merlin. Even broadening the topic fails to make your source relevant because the controversy does not involve flu vaccinations, nor can autism be accurately labeled a type of stupidity. The scope of implying the opinion of creationist groups is relevant defies an appropriately encompassing response with the practical expectation of participating in the topic rather than derailing it.

I recognize your intent, but until somebody of the party that is against vaccinations in general makes a falsifiable statement, all you can do is remind the spectators that the solution to an uninformed fear, fear of disease, is not a redundant uninformed fear.
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Merlin
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Merlin » Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:40 am

The topic was broadened beyond H1N1 in the second post.

The link is in response to Dusk, who has met your qualifications. My personal experience has taught me that an appeal to ridicule is the best way to deal with misinformation. Also, Creationists.

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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Psiclone » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:57 am

paper tree wrote: I'm fine with atheists/agnostics wanting to debate about creationism and if God exists, but at least get the facts straight.
There are non-creationist Christians, ya know xP

Anyhow, I can't really speak for East Coast people, but at least on West Coast H1N1 is pretty much gone already and when it was here it didn't do jack.
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Rising_Dusk
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:06 am

Merlin wrote:The anti-immunization stuff are things that Creationists say. Think about that.
Your studies with unlisted sample populations and the other articles at that website on a similar topic with 72 people representing a nation mean nothing. Until you've had a relative suddenly begin showing signs of autism only after being vaccinated to those things does it suddenly matter to you. Sure, it could have been coincidence, but I'm not one to take chances. I don't give a shit about creationism or anything like that, I care about the things that have happened to me and how they have impacted me and mine.

If you want to tell me I am wrong in the face of a cousin who is now mentally handicapped because of mercury exposure due to vaccinations, fine, be belligerent, but at least don't act like I am idiot or "misinformed."
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Deschain
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by Deschain » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:21 am

Rising_Dusk wrote: If you want to tell me I am wrong in the face of a cousin who is now mentally handicapped because of mercury exposure due to vaccinations, fine, be belligerent, but at least don't act like I am idiot or "misinformed."
If you want to tell me I am wrong, in the face of a cousin (it is called sister of aunt from where I come from) that is mentally handicapped because they didn't vaccinate for smallpox sure go ahead but this is where I stand.

Individual and even small samples don't prove the concept wrong. In majority of cases vaccination are good things that provide you immunity to a disease without much contraindication. Do I think the mercury shot could have been better... Yes, I do and I am sorry that your cousin had to suffer; But as a whole vaccine is a good and necessary thing that prevents far worst things than what you and your cousin had to go through.
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Re: AH1N1: Getting shot or not?

Post by vesuvan » Sat Nov 07, 2009 5:40 am

How old is this relative? 19 months? How long has it been since they have been vaccinated? Three to four weeks? Is it male?
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