andriejj wrote:After looking up "rescind", yes, I rescind from the comment about Holocaust, which was ironic, and which you picked on for a surprisingly long time.
Because like I told you a while ago that daring to compare anything that Jews do to the Holocaust is asking for an emotionally packed response. It's just not something you.
andriejj wrote:Now on the Hamas thing. They form a democratically elected government. Israel should respect that. And Hamas by itself wasn't created by evil, plotting muslims, it's a resultant of many factors, mainly the frustration and desperation of people who were forced to leave their 'motherland'. Same with Hezbollah.
Israel did respect that. Israel respected that by stopping their supplies to the Aza Strip because it was basically the Palestinians saying that they were ready to stop relying on Israel essentially. Think about it, if a government is supplying your country with food, power, and medical supplies and then you elected a party that is KNOWN to be associated with terrorists that attack the country supplying yours what do you think that foreign government will do? Do you expect them to be happy about that?
As for being forced to leave their 'motherland': In the war of '48 I'll admit there were a few isolated instances where Israel did clear out towns but it isn't a clear cut Israel was kicking out Palestinians it was more because the army that the Palestinians led was among the people and when Israel was trying to control the roads leading up to Jerusalem they had to clear out all possible hide outs for the enemy's army. However the majority of the Palestinians left because the surrounding Arab countries told the Palestinians to leave because they would get in the way and when the Jewish menace was wiped out they could return. Please note these are the same Arab countries that refuse to treat the Palestinian refugees in their own country as equals and force them to live in refugee camps when they could have easily been integrated into their society.
Also as for the original splitting of land by the British Mandate: The land being split up between the Palestinians and the Jews wasn't actually relocating people at all, in fact the only major area where Palestinians and Jews were close together was Jerusalem. Beyond Jerusalem Jewish and Palestinian settlements were pretty far apart and the land allocated to each of them wouldn't have been "kicking out" that many if any Palestinians from "their land" (I use quotations around their land because they had never previously owned it but they had been living in the area).
andriejj wrote:Hamas is not the problem, Israel is the problem. It's a fully artificial country created and supported by the so-called 'Great Powers'. The historical foundations for a Jewish country are long and forgotten. I have full understanding for Palestinians who want that land back. Imagine the Dutch dominating the Manhattan (which they originally colonised) and trying to create some autonomy there. Wouldn't work, USA would go furious.
While many agree that there is no historical foundation for a Jewish country in Israel I find it hard to believe that there isn't a historical foundation for a Jewish state. Jews have had problems where ever they go in the world one way or another. America is an exception but at the same it's not like America is a true safe haven for anyone all over it. The Holocaust accelerate the process but a Jewish state was considered a must with many Jews all over the world and obviously even the UN believed so.
andriejj wrote:Having raised the topic of support, tell me, what do you gain from supporting Israel? A trustworthy ally? Sure as hell NOT. Iran is more trustworthy than Israel. Jews do what they want to do, they've proven it by many unagreed initiatives (mainly assaults). You've sold them some Patriots and other arms (on occasional prices), big deal. And what are the cons? Hatred of a dozen muslim countries and generally among the 'muslim world'. Does it really pay off? I don't think so.
You don't know how Israel has contributed to the world have you? Israel has the highest ratio of engineers as well one of, if not the highest, ratio of noble peace prizes. Israel has made certain technologies that we all love a reality such as mobile phones and IM messaging. Now these are just scientific endeavors but Israel is also one of the first countries to always respond to a national disaster with medical supplies and man power.
What I don't understand is how you can talk about fairness til your face is blue and then turn around and then say that being allied to Arab countries like Iran which are clearly dictatorships and are willing to openly preach for the destruction of a whole people is just baffling.