The replacement problem.

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vesuvan
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The replacement problem.

Post by vesuvan » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:06 pm

A fairy appears and makes an offer to you.

You may choose any number of traits about yourself to change in any manner you please. The fairy offers to copy you, and apply those traits. The copy will retain all of your memories excluding that which would give evidence of this event. You will be disposed of, leaving no verifiable evidence that you existed, or that this offer took place. All of your choices regarding the conditions of this offer are explainable, or do not demand an explanation. Your family and friends may notice changes, but these are effectively just growth as a person. Your replacement will still love and be loved, possibly with greater effectiveness if that was a trait you chose to change.

Do you take the offer?

If that question was too easy, here is something to add to the difficulty. Instead of being destroyed, you become a disembodied intelligence that will have all of your present knowledge, in addition to anything your replacement senses. You may not influence his or her actions in any way, and you will never know what he or she is thinking. Do you still take the offer?

If you still would take that offer, what if the fairy chose to maliciously prevent you from sensing anything pleasant that your replacement may experience, while permitting suffering. Do you still take the offer?
͎̟͕͎̯̺͎̟͕͎̯̺ĩ̵̢͉̺̹͖͔̻̣̟̙ͦ̋̍ͤ̈́ͫ̓͐͐̅͊͒ͪͬͧͅn̢̮͈̪̤̳̏ͥ̐̍̌͊͜͟͠
̵̢͉̺̹͖͔̻̣̟̙ͦ̋̍ͤ̈́ͫ̓͐͐̅͊͒ͪͬͧͅn̢̮͈̪̤̳̏ͥ̐̍̌͊͜͟͠

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by Rising_Dusk » Fri Dec 11, 2009 1:58 pm

Your first question is legitimate, your further ones are not. The first one boils down to if you believe that your 'soul' or consciousness is unique and therefore cannot be transfered, or if you believe that consciousness is a state of the mind and therefore a perfect replica of you would have the same consciousness as you.

Your second and third questions are ludicrous and makes no point whatsoever based upon anyone's beliefs. Short of there being any masochists in our midst, no one is going to want to remain a disembodied intelligence incapable of affecting humanity but being totally and perpetually affected by it. That's is probably what hell is like if it exists at all.

Ignoring your second and third questions, I would gladly accept the fairy's first request.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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Jericho Veronus
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by Jericho Veronus » Fri Dec 11, 2009 10:45 pm

What I wanna know is, if this fairy has in its possession the ability and knowledge of doing all that it's offering and that it does in fact offer the above options, why is it that the fairy doesn't simply make the changes that you wish for, simply to you your current self, forgoing any destruction of your "former" being in the physical, mental, and spiritual sense?
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Rising_Dusk
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:07 am

Because it's a really poorly constructed analogy to cloning, of course. :p
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

vesuvan
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by vesuvan » Sat Dec 12, 2009 5:21 am

Here is another perspective on the third offer. You have no way of knowing if a previous instance of yourself is experiencing "hell" for your improvements. Does this theoretical intelligence affect you in any way? No. If you are satisfied with an instance of yourself prospering while another experiences oblivion, why is one that experiences hell such a repulsive idea?

Keep in mind that the additional offers are not alternatives, they are independent thought experiments. It's obvious that the first is superior.
͎̟͕͎̯̺͎̟͕͎̯̺ĩ̵̢͉̺̹͖͔̻̣̟̙ͦ̋̍ͤ̈́ͫ̓͐͐̅͊͒ͪͬͧͅn̢̮͈̪̤̳̏ͥ̐̍̌͊͜͟͠
̵̢͉̺̹͖͔̻̣̟̙ͦ̋̍ͤ̈́ͫ̓͐͐̅͊͒ͪͬͧͅn̢̮͈̪̤̳̏ͥ̐̍̌͊͜͟͠

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Kaome Sky Deathand
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by Kaome Sky Deathand » Sat Dec 12, 2009 2:28 pm

Who is to say that we are not but puppets of our own selves?
'Tests' if you would to see what combination of traits best suit our 'flavor' for the moment.

Perhaps we are the leftover traits that have been discarded.
Compiling into one creature made entirely of rejected genes and traits.
Walking, living, breathing flaws.

Who is to say that this is not the 'Hell' we promised to ourselves.
More often than not, we are the architects of our own destruction.
Cruor Vult

Hope, it is the quintessential human delusion,
simultaneously the source of our greatest strength, and our greatest weakness.

Soon we shall be One...joined in the Word.

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sat Dec 12, 2009 4:25 pm

Vesuvan wrote:Here is another perspective on the third offer. You have no way of knowing if a previous instance of yourself is experiencing "hell" for your improvements. Does this theoretical intelligence affect you in any way? No. If you are satisfied with an instance of yourself prospering while another experiences oblivion, why is one that experiences hell such a repulsive idea?
Because, obviously, no one deserves to experience oblivion. Killing the base version is a far sweeter fate than being forced to endure eternity.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

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Deschain
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by Deschain » Sat Dec 12, 2009 8:47 pm

Obligatory SMBC reference.
Those who seek war deserve for the war to find them.

vesuvan
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by vesuvan » Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:37 pm

Because, obviously, no one deserves to experience oblivion.
Are you contradicting your earlier answer of "yes" to the first offer?

For your information, oblivion means to be unaware and forgotten. "Experience oblivion" is an oxymoron.
͎̟͕͎̯̺͎̟͕͎̯̺ĩ̵̢͉̺̹͖͔̻̣̟̙ͦ̋̍ͤ̈́ͫ̓͐͐̅͊͒ͪͬͧͅn̢̮͈̪̤̳̏ͥ̐̍̌͊͜͟͠
̵̢͉̺̹͖͔̻̣̟̙ͦ̋̍ͤ̈́ͫ̓͐͐̅͊͒ͪͬͧͅn̢̮͈̪̤̳̏ͥ̐̍̌͊͜͟͠

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Dec 13, 2009 3:07 am

No, I'm not, because the first offer implies the base form's total destruction, not eternal suffering.
vesuvan wrote:For your information, oblivion means to be unaware and forgotten. "Experience oblivion" is an oxymoron.
For your information, It actually means the state of being totally forgotten. You can experience being totally forgotten.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

vesuvan
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by vesuvan » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:40 am

There is nothing about the state of being merely forgotten that precludes experiencing it. My reasoning is based on the remainder of the definition that can be found in the Oxford English Dictionary. Listed synonyms included 'annihilation', with which you may read in place of the word 'oblivion' if it is less difficult for you to accept for the purpose of this discussion.
͎̟͕͎̯̺͎̟͕͎̯̺ĩ̵̢͉̺̹͖͔̻̣̟̙ͦ̋̍ͤ̈́ͫ̓͐͐̅͊͒ͪͬͧͅn̢̮͈̪̤̳̏ͥ̐̍̌͊͜͟͠
̵̢͉̺̹͖͔̻̣̟̙ͦ̋̍ͤ̈́ͫ̓͐͐̅͊͒ͪͬͧͅn̢̮͈̪̤̳̏ͥ̐̍̌͊͜͟͠

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Oxygen
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by Oxygen » Sun Dec 13, 2009 10:46 am

Being perfect, nothing can be improved on me.

Though I could use a bit less ego... Yeah, let's do it

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:08 pm

vesuvan wrote:There is nothing about the state of being merely forgotten that precludes experiencing it.
Obviously, I said that already.
vesuvan wrote:My reasoning is based on the remainder of the definition that can be found in the Oxford English Dictionary. Listed synonyms included 'annihilation', with which you may read in place of the word 'oblivion' if it is less difficult for you to accept for the purpose of this discussion.
Synonyms, as you should well know, are never exactly the same as the word in question. I could use synonyms to navigate from one definition of something to another that doesn't mean remotely the same thing. I can read the English language, thank you very much, and annihilation or oblivion or whatever, the first thought-experiment results in your base form experiencing it - which is entirely legitimate - and either way, resulting in the base form's destruction and removal of consciousness. Just as you can experience death or life, you can experience being forgotten/destroyed.
"I'll come to Florida one day and make you look like a damn princess." ~Hep

Cooldood
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Re: The replacement problem.

Post by Cooldood » Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:09 pm

More often than not I enjoy the process of discovering what my flaws are - and attempting to fix them as far as possible/learn to work with them. It makes life all the more flavoured. I'm happy being me, mess and all. Plus, never trust fairies.
Let the music flow through your soul

Walk the road, see the sights, cos boy, you aint coming back!

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