-rb

This is where all random discussion about DoE goes. If it doesn't feel like it fits anywhere else but is still related to the map, this is the place to post it.
Rectifier
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Re: -rb

Post by Rectifier » Tue May 13, 2008 1:25 am

I don't see any forumers bashing your map and saying Dota is better (unless they're joking).

Sadly, some forumers feel it necessary to claim your copying Tob even though your coding style and maps are completely different.

And to be quite honest, 99% of ideas in the world are all copied from some previous observation made in history, so unless someone is obviously plagiarizing, I fail to see the need to bash anybody for "stealing" ideas (especially if they're coded more efficiently and implemented better).

Sorry for not clarifying Dusk, but I was talking about this forum only :| .

Despite the simplicity of the map, Dota has become a lot more polished, and I enjoy playing through a work in progress as much as a finished product. I'm not saying Dota is the best map, or has the best community; but Dota updates...
Thats the only reason I find it better than other maps that have more interesting map design. I mean hell, there are plenty of older maps that are much more fun to play, but the projects died for one reason or another and stopped updating while still in betas or semi-final versions (twink, there are even DBZ Rampage maps that have better implementation of concepts...).

I mean, I have 845 mb of maps on this laptop, I know when a map is good or not...

Final Note:

Assholes tend to be nice to nice guys, but only when they're helping them.

I can't prove that the Tob guys are assholes, but I'm starting to see a pattern emerge that implies they are at least jerks simply from reading posts in this forum alone. Don't trust those guys Dusk.

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andriejj
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Re: -rb

Post by andriejj » Tue May 13, 2008 3:28 am

Uh, he was talking about bashing any map, no matter if it's ToB, AoM, DoE or DotA. And who's talking about ToB copying HERE? Only a few ToB fans >_>

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Merlin
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Re: -rb

Post by Merlin » Tue May 13, 2008 5:13 am

Wufei wrote:Dusk, when did the makers of ToB ask you to help make O? I was prodding them to ask you for help to make a truly awesome map, even though I didn't know it was O. You can check my forum profile on there (same as on here) and find that they still are bashing you and shit :P
If by they, you mean Aura and other our other village idiots, then sure. As far as I can tell, everyone else at the ToB forums quite enjoys DoE.

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Re: -rb

Post by Fulla » Tue May 13, 2008 8:09 am

Well its up to Dusk what he does, thou I'd much rather see a new Aotz over a new ToB thou personally.

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: -rb

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue May 13, 2008 9:02 am

It has nothing to do with the peanut gallery at this point, don't worry about me.
Rectifier wrote:I mean, I have 845 mb of maps on this laptop, I know when a map is good or not...
I have nearly 4gb of maps. :p
Fulla wrote:Well its up to Dusk what he does, thou I'd much rather see a new Aotz over a new ToB thou personally.
You can see both. :)
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Wufei
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Re: -rb

Post by Wufei » Tue May 13, 2008 10:10 am

Rectifier wrote:I don't see any forumers bashing your map and saying Dota is better (unless they're joking).
Yeah, but they were bashing the map and saying that ToB is much better, and throwing wrenches at some concept that games like AotZ were worse than ToB...
Rectifier wrote: Despite the simplicity of the map, Dota has become a lot more polished, and I enjoy playing through a work in progress as much as a finished product. I'm not saying Dota is the best map, or has the best community; but Dota updates...
Thats the only reason I find it better than other maps that have more interesting map design. I mean hell, there are plenty of older maps that are much more fun to play, but the projects died for one reason or another and stopped updating while still in betas or semi-final versions (fandangle, there are even DBZ Rampage maps that have better implementation of concepts...)
The DotA updates are so minor, I swear they do updates just to show that they're doing updates... I, a long while ago, compared three changelogs, and in it, you could see them fiddling with a hero's spelldamage to make it lower, then upping it again come a few more updates. Is this strange to you?
Rectifier wrote: I mean, I have 845 mb of maps on this laptop, I know when a map is good or not...
Hello, I do believe I have around 8-10 gigs of maps :D
Rectifier wrote: Final Note:

Assholes tend to be nice to nice guys, but only when they're helping them.

I can't prove that the Tob guys are assholes, but I'm starting to see a pattern emerge that implies they are at least jerks simply from reading posts in this forum alone. Don't trust those guys Dusk.
Agreed on not trusting them... They're sucking up to you, it's obvious. But I know you won't make it an excuse to do a poor job out of it. G'luck Dusk.

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: -rb

Post by Rising_Dusk » Tue May 13, 2008 10:38 am

I tend to be unresponsive to flattery or insults unless they come from a source that I respect on some level, (ie. Cassiel) so I wouldn't worry about people in general. I only listen to those that I want to listen to, there's a particular reason I developed my own community and evolved it in such a way that they give meaningful feedback. :)

I don't think I 'trust' anyone to begin with, rather I trust my own judgment but still listen to what everyone has to say. I think it works better that way.
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Re: -rb

Post by TheIrishPatriot » Tue May 13, 2008 3:19 pm

Rising_Dusk wrote:I tend to be unresponsive to flattery or insults unless they come from a source that I respect on some level.
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Re: -rb

Post by Flameboy » Sat May 17, 2008 11:09 am

The DotA updates are so minor, I swear they do updates just to show that they're doing updates... I, a long while ago, compared three changelogs, and in it, you could see them fiddling with a hero's spelldamage to make it lower, then upping it again come a few more updates. Is this strange to you?
Yes and they try to make the changelog have as many lines as possible. Whereas when I look at a DoE changelog and see: ''1 new hero added''. Good, thats just better than 5 versions of dota.
Dota is, imo, the most disapointing AoS. It lacks custom abilities. The latest hero they introduced, faerie dragon, has the spell ''phase shift''. The exact same spell as the melee faerie dragon. A bit disapointing.

And about this notion of plagiarism. Its very debatable. Dota community tends to call every AoS a ''dota ripoff'' even if the only thing maps like DoE, AotZ or AoM have in common with dota is the map style. Now at what point can you call something plagiarism. When you take a general idea and put it into your map. I don't think so. Else: DoE has scoreboard. Omg stolen. DoE uses heroes. More stealing. And we can keep going and name all the ressemblance. I think plagiarism is when, and only when, you steal something very unique. Example: A hero name. If I make a map and call my hero ''Arro Kree'', thats plagiarism. If I take a spell from a map and take it, thats plagiarism too.

I used to play dota. I was a dota player, like one who thinks dota is better. However, I never said ''omg this is just a dota ripoff''. I just told the makers ''I personally think Dota is better than this''. I changed my mind when I played AoM. Then I tried AotZ, and oxy showed me DoE. So now I play DoE.

DoE is, even tho I complain, the most balanced AoS around. AoM fails at balance. Dota is ridiculously imbalanced. I never played ToB so I can't really say, and no offense, but I really think AotZ need some balance work.

And a little more on the topic: The rebalance thing :S
A rebalance option would be incredible if it lets you decide. Especially when someone leave in the first 5 minutes. This way you can re-even the teams.
A shuffle would also be fun against stacking, which people tend to do. But I think the concept of bane heroes staying on bane side and order heroes on order's side should be kept. Else there could be 2 problems: Its kinda weird and goes against the whole storyline. ANd balance. Some combos would probably end up very imbalanced.

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assassingao
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Re: -rb

Post by assassingao » Sat May 17, 2008 11:44 am

It only shuffle the players across each sides in the beginning of the game. Not the heroes that they picked or anything.
A shuffle would also be fun against stacking, which people tend to do. But I think the concept of bane heroes staying on bane side and order heroes on order's side should be kept. Else there could be 2 problems: Its kinda weird and goes against the whole storyline. ANd balance. Some combos would probably end up very imbalanced.

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Re: -rb

Post by Flameboy » Sat May 17, 2008 4:20 pm

Oh, then i'm 100% for it ^^

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Re: -rb

Post by Cooldood » Sun May 18, 2008 12:53 am

If Dusk is implementing the shuffle like he said he is, then its upto the host to enable it... and I think its generally the hosts who have something to do with stacking -_-
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assassingao
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Re: -rb

Post by assassingao » Sun May 18, 2008 1:02 am

Then it's up to the players to decide.

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Re: -rb

Post by Flameboy » Sun May 18, 2008 3:02 am

Problem with ''host functions'' is host sometimes want to be bane. So what if the guy being red is a retard and enables it?

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Rising_Dusk
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Re: -rb

Post by Rising_Dusk » Sun May 18, 2008 3:03 am

The host selects the option before the game is even opened to the chat room, so that point is moot.
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